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post #7081 of 7980
Quote:
Originally Posted by DMinor View Post

Nobody knows what "exactly" it is supposed to sound, but one can compare the sound between the gears. One's neutral phone can be south of neutral for the other.

So...you randomly associate the "neutral" tag to the phone you feel is neutral? Then shouldn't we rule out using the term "neutral" from reviews altogether as it doesn't really say much about the phone itself? Just regular comparisons with other phones should be enough to describe the sound.

 

Unless purely neutral would need test tones for evaluation.


Edited by EveTan - 5/9/13 at 11:30pm
post #7082 of 7980
Quote:
Originally Posted by DigitalFreak View Post


The TZAR 350 IS NOWHERE NEAR NEUTRAL. The 350's are analytical sounding detail monsters which means they're a colored sound just like a warm overly bassy piece of gear is considered colored. A neutral is considered uncolored and has no emphasis of it's own. The 350's treble has been overly tuned and emphasized which is a far cry from neutral.

 

Not to sound rude on the thread but I've been biting my tongue the last little while over all these posts calling the 350 neutral. I had the Tzar 350 sent to me by another head-fier and put a good amount of head time on it and I'm lost as to why so many people on here are calling the 350 neutral. Has anyone here even heard any gear that's actually neutral? A neutral will sound like absolutely nothing. The only time it will sound warm or bright is when the source music demands it to sound like that. An before anyone asks, yes, a neutral, a well done one at least, can sound warm with one song and overly analytical with another. A neutral will dutifully sound like whatever the music demands of it. A analytical will not do that no more then a bass cannon will. An analytical will always sound analytical and will always have overly aggressive treble because it was tuned that way. It will not play the music the way it was meant to be heard because it wasn't designed to. It was designed to sound analytical and extract a lot of micro detail from the music which is NOT NATURAL SOUNDING. Come on people, there's nothing wrong with being over the top with your product love but let's not go crazy and start putting a dress on a pig and naming it Marilyn Monroe.

 

I think there's a couple of things going on with the Tzar 350, it was first described as Heir's answer to the Etymotic ER-4S which is considered by many to be one of the most neutral measuring headphones so there seems to be some assumptions made about the Tzar 350 based on this. The thing is, to me the ER-4S does not sound neutral or natural and the other thing is the Tzar 350 doesn't really sound like the ER-4S. I'd go as far as to say that, to me, with the exception of the treble, the Tzar 350's sound much more natural than the ER-4S does. For me, and it seems like many others as well, the Tzar 350's main flaw is the treble spike that seems to be around the 8 Khz region, EQ'ing this region down anywhere from 4-8 db makes a significant difference. With the treble EQ'd down I feel they sound more natural albeit a bit on the lean side for my tastes but if they could tone that region down and add on another driver or two to fill out the bass I think they'd be on to something.

post #7083 of 7980
Quote:
Originally Posted by EveTan View Post

So...you randomly associate the "neutral" tag to the phone you feel is neutral? Then shouldn't we rule out using the term "neutral" from reviews altogether as it doesn't really say much about the phone itself? Just regular comparisons with other phones should be enough to describe the sound.

 

Unless purely neutral would need test tones for evaluation.


"Neutral" is basically a general term which covers a range of sound signatures. There are cold neutral and warm neutral too, for instance my EX1000 is a cold neutral while my 4Ai is a warm neutral. wink_face.gif

 

P.S. YMMV


Edited by DMinor - 5/10/13 at 3:01am
post #7084 of 7980
Quote:
Originally Posted by DMinor View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by EveTan View Post

So...you randomly associate the "neutral" tag to the phone you feel is neutral? Then shouldn't we rule out using the term "neutral" from reviews altogether as it doesn't really say much about the phone itself? Just regular comparisons with other phones should be enough to describe the sound.

 

Unless purely neutral would need test tones for evaluation.


"Neutral" is basically a general term which covers a range of sound signatures. There are cold neutral and warm neutral too, for instance my EX1000 is a cold neutral while my 4Ai is a warm neutral. wink_face.gif

 

P.S. YMMV


4.Ai is not neutral...
post #7085 of 7980

How would you classify the 4ai's sound signature?

post #7086 of 7980
post #7087 of 7980

Hello, thanks for everyone's advice. I'm probably going for fiio x3 -> DAC -> Rendition 1 -> 8A haha.

 

Any suggestions for a good portable DAC for this? Also, any impressions of the Rendition 1? They seem quite rare at the moment.

 

Thanks.

post #7088 of 7980

If you are looking for something ultra portable, I'd recommend the headstage arrow. I use an iTouch, line-out cable, and the headstage arrow 3 as my portable driver for my 8.A ciems, and I love the combination. The headstage is not a DAC, but it sounds fantastic and has decent, subtle sound sculpting features hardwired into the unit. It is also ultra portable, fitting nicely in my pants' pocket as I'm travelling around.

post #7089 of 7980

Haha thanks for your recommendation. Hmmm, maybe I'm not looking for that portable (I mean, since the Rendition 1 isn't that small). Maybe another DAC the size of the Rendition 1 would be fine? I guess I should say "transportable".

 

Thanks :)

post #7090 of 7980
Quote:
Originally Posted by elnero View Post

 

I think there's a couple of things going on with the Tzar 350, it was first described as Heir's answer to the Etymotic ER-4S which is considered by many to be one of the most neutral measuring headphones so there seems to be some assumptions made about the Tzar 350 based on this. The thing is, to me the ER-4S does not sound neutral or natural and the other thing is the Tzar 350 doesn't really sound like the ER-4S. I'd go as far as to say that, to me, with the exception of the treble, the Tzar 350's sound much more natural than the ER-4S does. For me, and it seems like many others as well, the Tzar 350's main flaw is the treble spike that seems to be around the 8 Khz region, EQ'ing this region down anywhere from 4-8 db makes a significant difference. With the treble EQ'd down I feel they sound more natural albeit a bit on the lean side for my tastes but if they could tone that region down and add on another driver or two to fill out the bass I think they'd be on to something.

 

Wouldn't EQ'ing something down mean you are making it unnatural? The way it wasn't intended to be heard? rolleyes.gif

post #7091 of 7980
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greed View Post

 

Wouldn't EQ'ing something down mean you are making it unnatural? The way it wasn't intended to be heard? rolleyes.gif

 

No, not if the IEM has a spike that shouldn't be there.  A spike at the 8 k attenuates the upper treble a bit, but it is unnatural.  It would actually help to bump it down. The only real spike should be the resonance spike around the 2.7 kHz region which is really there for the acoustic impedance of the ear drum (it tends to be a large spike too).


Edited by tinyman392 - 5/10/13 at 10:18am
post #7092 of 7980
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinyman392 View Post

 

No, not if the IEM has a spike that shouldn't be there.  A spike at the 8 k attenuates the upper treble a bit, but it is unnatural.  It would actually help to bump it down. 

 

I think you misinterpreted what I said. I'm saying unnatural meaning that you are making the Tzar350's intended sound signature different. That is much different than not neutral, which I assume you are talking about. I'm not talking about how the music sounds natural or unnatural, simply talking about the IEM itself.

post #7093 of 7980

Hey charpi,

In that case, the rendition 1 might be best since it has been created with Heir Audio products in mind. However, like the Headstage, the Rendition 1 is not a DAC, but rather an amp with line in/out. 

If you are looking for something that doubles as a DAC, you may want to check out the CEntrance Hi-Fi M-8. There is an impression thread just starting on Headfi here:

http://tinyurl.com/co8f4ze

This weekend, the Hi-Fi M-8 is making its debut in Tokyo, so I would expect many reviews coming out of the Tokyo headphone show. There is a lot of hype behind the CEntrance DAC because it the unit was developed with constant feedback from Headfi users. It is an amp and a DAC which takes a digital stream  from all Apple products including the iphone, touch, ipod, & ipad at resolutions up to 24bit 192. The D/A conversion happens in the Hi-Fi M-8, bypassing Apple's D/A converters.

post #7094 of 7980
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greed View Post

 

I think you misinterpreted what I said. I'm saying unnatural meaning that you are making the Tzar350's intended sound signature different. That is much different than not neutral, which I assume you are talking about. I'm not talking about how the music sounds natural or unnatural, simply talking about the IEM itself.

 

Removing an artifact that makes an IEM unnatural (the 8 kHz spike) will make it more natural... 

post #7095 of 7980
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinyman392 View Post

 

Removing an artifact that makes an IEM unnatural (the 8 kHz spike) will make it more natural... 

 

Again misinterpreting what I'm trying to say. You are referring to natural as what the track is meant to sound like. I'm saying, EQ'ing the 350 would be making the sound of the 350 unnatural, meaning the original sound of the 350 is taken away. Anyways, it wasn't a serious comment. No need for back and forth debate, it is totally irrelevant to what DF said and what elnero further said. I'm just giving him a hard time. 

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