how do you identify good cables?

release the hounds!

In my humble opinion, the cable that came stock on my 300+ dollar phones would logically be pretty damn nice, but I modded anyway to some obscenely expensive cable and I can hear zero difference.

My answer would be the best cable that fits the application.

If the cable will be moved a lot, such as for headphones or a microphone, it should be very flexible, a braided not foil shield (if shielded), and low microphonics.

If the cable is in an electrically noisy area, then the cable should have a proper shield for the type of interference in that area, braided for EMI, foil for RF.

Proper impedance and/or capacitance for digital signals.

Most other aspects are up for debate.

I do not think that there is one answer or likely to be any agreement on this. If you go by cable maker claims all sorts of construction type sounds better than any other. If you go by audiophile opinion and reviews all sorts of cable construction sound better (and worse) than any other.

There is no consistency, though some say there is, but such cannot be differentiated from a cable that has become flavour of the month.

There is certainly no science to to evidnece any calims about how a cable affects sound quality.

My DIY cables are based on pro audio, robust and cheap brands were there is far less snake oil.

Good cable - for me means: easy to work with (nothing weird to deal with, just good construction, and solid materials). High quality conductors - without getting crazy with the psuedo-science and wild claims (26-22 AWG stranded copper conductors are perfect for 95% of all my headphone cable and interconnect needs), and good value... (If I can keep things under $2 a foot, great).

Mogami cables meet just about all my criteria for most of my headphone needs. Cheapish, well made, easy to use. That's a good cable. 

For the same reasons I have used Van Damme and Proel cables, with Neutrik Rean and Switchcraft connectors for my DIY.

Quote:

Originally Posted by roosta 
...this is not a discussion on "do cables make an audible difference", this is a discussion on "how do cables make an audible difference...

Right. Putting in 'how' makes all the difference.

You're not fooling anybody. A difference that makes no difference is no difference at all.

You cable guys...

w

There is a thread (several) in the "Sound Science" forum for the debate on cables. 

Because cables have not been shown to have an audible effect (beside volume changes due to differences in resistance) - I understood this thread to be about what qualities I considered for a "good" cable - regardless of any audible differences. As a DIY'er, that includes features of price, usability, material choice, etc. This should not be a thread at all to debate. 

I don't believe in snake oil, however there are good cables and not so good cables and while they can be somewhat expensive, good cables shouldn't cost the earth.

I am thinking more in terms of what I use in my day jobs as a security/comms tech.

You will actually get differences in performance for example with different brands of cat5/6/7 cable. I have have had no name brand cat 6 fail cat 5 spec on a certifier for a very long run slightly over the recommended distance of 90m (110m), a cat 5 cable of a superior brand passed... just. These are measurable results though and it is with high speed data.

Also one other thing is how nice it is to work with, how flexible the cable and it's sheath is, how easy it may be to strip or the sheath resistant to damage, how well the cables are colour coded.

Some examples with that would be again with cat 5/6, some manufacturers don't print the colours on the white mates at all or only very faintly so you can get them mixed up or lose your pair.

In security cable I've had some where the sheath is stretchy and hard to strip, wheareas some powdered cables strip back very easily. Some have more annoying colour schemese, blues that are deep navy and look similar to black, oranges that look like brown, yellow or red.

I've had figure 8 with a sheath that was painfully annoying to strip, very stiff and hard.

With coax for CCTV I've used RG59 before that just wasn't quite right, build quality was a bit sub par and crimp would quite easily pull off when terminated, switched to another brand and the sheath is nice and flexbile but not too soft and of course you can actually crimp a connector on without it coming off.

These are more to do though with ease of assembly.

I do believe that there are differences in quality with audio cables as well as video, however at nowhere near the price of what some people charge, ie. I figure the cost of a patch cable due to it being mass produced should not exceed the cost of that same brand cable by the meter, connectors and labour to assemble plus a small reasonable markup of course.

More than a few people have bought or built aftermarket cables for their Audeze and HiFiMan headphones even though they thought the originals sounded perfectly fine, because the stock cables are stiff and uncomfortable or microphonic, and the popular aftermarket cables are more supple and more comfortable to wear.

There has been a complete industry in audio swindling folks out of their hard earned cash. After you see the photographs and hear the stories you realize how far some have traveled down the rabbit hole. Reading many reviews and write-ups you can feel the BS as it smells at times.  That said it is understandable how we have our own little group of anti cable folks pulling each others chains off into infinity posting hundreds of pages on THE CAUSE.

Away from all the fire and brimstone, it is quiet easy just to go to a meet or borrow friends cables. Many believe that different cables sound different. There are three different types starting with power cables, going to interconnects and ending with headphone cables and speaker wire. Some believe these differences are attributed to system properties, others believe placebo is in full effect.

A good cable will get you sonic changes which are noticeable right away. You should get a faster pace from your amp if the old power-cord was stifling it. You should notice a closer sound to what you have wanted with trying different interconnects. All correct cable changes will get you a different sound stage as well as help you with getting your entire presentation to where you want it to be. If you had muddy bass response you may find your bass cleaned up and the middle tones cleaned and detailed up. I would guess that there could even be issues with too much treble adjusted down to a warmer place with the use of cables. Some believe that cables can do all this and could completely affect the overall sound. I was a nonbeliever for most of my life. I guess that the system you have does play a role in hearing the changes that cables can provide. There may also be times when the changes are small or unnoticeable but it never hurts to experiment as long as it is free.

My system was changed 90% from cables. I thought many of my issues were equipment oriented but found synergy of cables got me to where I wanted to be. Each part of the signal chain is a component. What ever these changes are, if they are repeatable on a daily basis for years on end, I am not really concerned with a scientifically provable reality. It's not like I'm spending any more money on up-grades either. 

If people want to be able to identify a good cable they should be presented with evidence from all sides as to what makes a good cable. That is all I am concerned about.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ardgedee 

More than a few people have bought or built aftermarket cables for their Audeze and HiFiMan headphones even though they thought the originals sounded perfectly fine, because the stock cables are stiff and uncomfortable or microphonic, and the popular aftermarket cables are more supple and more comfortable to wear.

 

very unusual case, I would say 90%+ of the headphone recable jobs I see fail on bettering the factory cable on these characteristics - everyone seems to think they need bigger wire, most of what is easy to buy, diy with has much heavier/stiffer construction than factory headphone cables

the "objective" view - supported by controlled Subjective testing - not "just listen" is that frequency response is the main determing factor in "sound" - ABX just detectable threshold for frequency response/level difference is ~ 0.1 dB, ~= 1% voltage difference

cables seldom exceed 1% of the headphone driver resistance, and if the headphone impedance vs frequency curve is flat  - like orthodynamics - then there is only a minisucle Volume difference with no freqeuncy response modification even for >> 1% of driver Z cable resistance change

if you want different "sound" then you can "just listen" - without level matching, controls, under the influence of trying to hear some audiophile babble sound "feature" - you Will hear a difference

if you want to cheaply, effectively modify the sound use EQ or buy different headphones (cheaper than some cables!)

for player/pre/amp IC heavy shield conductor is better, lower shield R reduces gnd loop current hum, "video" RCA are often better on EMI rejection with proper 360 degree shield termination - cheap molded "audio" RCA may just use a pigtail