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Equalise to get a flat frequency (WHY NOT?) - Page 3

post #31 of 119

the 650 apparently are pretty good (fairly neutral) without much eq.. so no real surprises.

 

I finally got a good parametric eq plugin (redline eq) and crossfeed (redline monitor) - and have my 702's eq'd to where I think they make a pretty good reference set. Looking forward to pairing that with the 650's and a more neutral dac/amp sometime after the new year. 

 

I now have a neutral reference/mixing/recording listening set up - then a couple basic "fun" set ups (grado/fostex/etc), where I just built custom presets in itunes, for when I don't want to bother with the whole shebang.

post #32 of 119

The HD 650 doesn't have sharp peaks or dips, the only EQ that one would want to apply to the HD 650 would be low Q, to change the general tonality of the headphones. If you like to tonality of the HD 650, it would indeed be useless. That said, you should always make sure you aren't clipping anything when equalizing.

post #33 of 119

It's mostly distortion characteristics.  If you bring down peaky areas too much you still have to bring up the volume which usually increase THD.  In terms of impulse response and whatnot even entry level headphones are fairly good, and some expensive ones are absolutely awful (I'm looking at you Ultrasone).

 

IME law of diminishing returns kicks in for headphones very quickly unless you're looking for a tuned sound.  Having an accurate headphone that's already flat with low distortion is much easier to shape to ones own liking too.  Depends on what you're looking for specifically though.

post #34 of 119

This is an interesting thread. I don't understand how there can be be so many "audiophile" grade headphones costing a hell of a lot of money, that are supposed to deliver music "as it was supposed to be heard", when each pair can sound drastically different from the other. The beyerdynamics for example. From the experiences on the site people say the DT990 has too much bass and the treble is harsh, whereas something like the AD700's completely lack bass. 

 

There are different headphones for different genres but I don't understand why since they all should be portraying music "as it should be heard". Since they obviously I believe a little EQ'ing is fine to tune your songs. Obviously there's a limit (like +10db in the 60Hz band) but theres no point in letting all the money you spent go to waste when it can be (reasonably) fixed with a little tweaking.

 

The question I wanted to ask here, instead of starting a new thread, was can you get an external equaliser? Many cheap mp3 players like the sansa clip have EQ's and can even be rockbox'd to give you a range of adjusting tools and crossfeeds, so why is it when I google for such a product I can't find any? I understand EQ'ing is done in the digital stage so do DAC's with decent EQ settings exist? I've seen that the fiio e7 has 3 bass boost settings so it can obviously be done for something like the DT770's (Which I was very close to buying) the bass needs to be cut. 

post #35 of 119

Lots of full size equalization options. I do not know of an adjustable portable digital or analog eq though, aside from hard coded circuit boards for specific corrections (e.g. Linkwitz's eq board for the ER-4). 

 

There may be some EQ options for the iPod touch and iPhone via apps and players (beyond stock). 

post #36 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by RayleighSilvers View Post

This is an interesting thread. I don't understand how there can be be so many "audiophile" grade headphones costing a hell of a lot of money, that are supposed to deliver music "as it was supposed to be heard", when each pair can sound drastically different from the other. The beyerdynamics for example. From the experiences on the site people say the DT990 has too much bass and the treble is harsh, whereas something like the AD700's completely lack bass. 



Well, consider this — since beginning to equalize my DT-880, there have been many times when I have analyzed the frequency response and said to myself "this sounds so smooth and perfect," and saved the EQ preset. After enjoying music for about 2 weeks, I checked back out of curiosity and it had fallen out of line. It was no longer flat. Repeat this over the course of a few months, and I have many old presets now that when I go back and listen they sound pretty awful. However it finally settled in and hasn't done this (at least, not as radically,) in a while now. So what's changed...? Or rather, what's stopped changing? The ear pads on the DT-880 have smooshed in considerably since they were new. The changes in sound signature reflect this (as the drivers get closer to my ears, I've had to increase high frequency output to achieve a flat response) They're at a point now where they aren't changing shape any more and therefore I haven't had drastic changes in EQ lately. Yes, something as simple as pads breaking in over time can have a drastic effect on the sound. If that's the case, can you imagine, given how complex and different the shape of our head, outer and inner ears are, how difficult it must be to make a headphone that sounds great to everyone? It's not difficult--it's impossible.


Edited by Vkamicht - 1/13/12 at 4:28am
post #37 of 119
EQ is not a Godsend from above. it will not fix everything. it can help but will not completely solve it. i don't eq at all unless was messing around in fl studio or something but that's it. all tone controls on my amps are set to defeat and not touched(well my Yamaha allows me to kill the pre-amp and use strictly the power amp inside). if i find myself using eq on simple playback and and listening then i guess i clearly bought the wrong pair of headphones or speakers.
post #38 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by RexAeterna View Post

if i find myself using eq on simple playback and and listening then i guess i clearly bought the wrong pair of headphones or speakers.


I disagree. No headphone is perfect. But I guess it all comes down to preference and need. 

post #39 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by liamstrain View Post

Lots of full size equalization options. I do not know of an adjustable portable digital or analog eq though, aside from hard coded circuit boards for specific corrections (e.g. Linkwitz's eq board for the ER-4). 

 

There may be some EQ options for the iPod touch and iPhone via apps and players (beyond stock). 



I'm surprised. It's not something that is technologically advance, I mean a puny sansa clip can have full EQ settings so I wonder why there isn't a seperate device for it. I'm asking because Some headphones have too much bass for gaming and a simple eq bass cut is all it needs.

post #40 of 119

anyone hear the SVS Realizer with a personal calibration?  - it been demoed at a national meet, there are threads here with owners apparently happy with the result, a Stereophile review discussing minutiae of the reproduced "soundfield"

 

the "lesson" is that (really advanced  customized to the user, room) EQ can make  a pair of headphones sound like This real set of loudspeakers in This real room

 

that experience will leave you laughing at posts in this thread about how EQ can't change "sound signature", "fix" soundstage, imaging...

 

http://smyth-research.com/index.html

post #41 of 119

Create what you want but there's no replacement for the real thing. I'm sure it's cool but the sort of processing will kill a great HiFi while it could improve simply a good one. It's all relatitive to need and expectation. EQ or even more complex digital manipulation doesn't remove reflections from a room. It compensates by lowering the original signal in that range to get an overal balance but first arrival will be compromised to do so. At the end of the day, the net result is what matters and many could benefit from DSP EQ, phase and time adjusts but it's just more stuff in the way of a truly competent setup. There's no compensation or substitute for getting it right before manipulation.

post #42 of 119

A few thoughts on EQ, and please bear in mind that this comes from a pro-sound mindset, so apply or disregard at your discretion.

 

-Always subtractive, never additive.  Boosting a signal will inevitably cause clipping somewhere in your signal path.

 

-Use to tune an already working system, not to fix a broken system.

 

-Use to compensate for room (or even the space between the driver and your head with headphones) resonance.  If you have a flat FR going to the transducer but you have peaks in the room, then you adjust the eq to compensate for those frequencies.

 

All other forms of EQing are for achieving a coloration of the sound.  

 

 

 

With this said, the only time I use an EQ is when I listen to music through speakers, an eq is cheaper than wall/room treatments.

post #43 of 119

     Quote:

Originally Posted by goodvibes View Post

Create what you want but there's no replacement for the real thing.

 

...

 

There's no compensation or substitute for getting it right before manipulation.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by RexAeterna View Post

if i find myself using eq on simple playback and and listening then i guess i clearly bought the wrong pair of headphones or speakers.


 

 

And I think this is why people never leave this website.

 

I don't know what the "real thing" is to you guys, but to some of us it just doesn't exist. I don't know why, but I've posted here many times trying to understand why I don't hear what most other people on Head-Fi seem to. Even with decent & highly regarded equipment and some very highly regarded headphones (LCD-2, Beyer T1) the sound never really changed. It was still peaky as hell and never ONCE sounded real to me. I've wasted so much money swapping out headphones and components trying to find where the "weak link" in my system is, and discovered the only weak link is my ears. Because speakers sound fine to me. They sound great, amazing even. Once I get them placed right, there's nary a spike in frequency response. But every headphone I have tried has so many spikes and dips that it's like listening through a tin can. Harsh, unrealistic. So I settled with EQ... now I'm listening through equipment that's about 1/5th the price that I had before yet sounds infinitely more real to me. Why would I give up something that sounds f@$#ing amazing to blow all my cash on this overpriced BS just so I can have "pristine, untouched" signal that sounds like crap?

 

There's a reason why mastering is never done with headphones: you can't trust them. Unless you spend a lot of time equalizing them to be sure that you are hearing exactly what the music is (as I've done to the closest of my ability) and not what the headphones are presenting it to be...


Edited by Vkamicht - 1/13/12 at 10:41am
post #44 of 119


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by goodvibes View Post

There's no compensation or substitute for getting it right before manipulation.


That's true but the problem is it costs a hell of a lot of money and time do get it right the first time. In the real world it's unrealistic to try and find your "perfect" headphones or phones that suit you up to a point you would call "exceptional" because

 

A) access to these equipments is very limited so we are at the mercy of user opinions which at the end of the day are opinions

 

B) Because sound is subjective one pair of phones that sound cold to one person might sound warm to another

 

C) a lot of these headphones need a burn in period so even if you do get a demo, it might not be "accurate"

 

D) a lot of high end equipments require a lot of money as I already mentioned.

 

I can understand your viewpoint. I personally hate modified cars. I think they should look and feel as the manufacturers produced them. I would only change my car if it was absolutely necessary. Same with Equalising headphones, if theres too much bass for gaming, rather than go out and spend another $100 on bass phones, it'd would be better to just lower the bass.

 

post #45 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by liamstrain View Post



I disagree. No headphone is perfect. But I guess it all comes down to preference and need. 


I'm more in the purist camp.  You're not going to make an imperfect headphone "more perfect" by using EQ.  EQ by definition changes the phase of the signal, and phase is one of primary things that determines soundstage.  So by EQing, you are trading soundstage coherency for frequency balance.  One the primary parameters that determines audiophile sound quality is phase, often called "group delay" in specs.  It's what can make one headphone have great soundstage and another one collapse everything into left-right-center.

 

The short version is that by EQing, you are mangling your soundstage in the pursuit of a flat frequency response.  Genre of music is relevant though.  If the music you listen to is already massively EQed by the recording engineer, a little more ain't gonna hurt.  If you are listening to something that was recorded well though, you're much better off buying headphones that already have the frequency response you want and not damaging the signal any more than necessary.

 

My two cents...

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