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TDK BA200 - Appreciation Thread - Page 79

post #1171 of 1420
Quote:
Originally Posted by proton007 View Post
 

Just wanted to get a comment in here.

 

I use the TDK- IE800, not too different from the BA200.

Oh, but they are very different :D

The IE800 has amazing levels of clarity and detail; the BA200 is more of a warm sound and does not boast nearly the same amount of clarity. If there is one improvement that can be given to the BA200 it's the clarity&detail department.

post #1172 of 1420
Quote:
Originally Posted by kalbee View Post
 

Oh, but they are very different :D

The IE800 has amazing levels of clarity and detail; the BA200 is more of a warm sound and does not boast nearly the same amount of clarity. If there is one improvement that can be given to the BA200 it's the clarity&detail department.

Which of them has better mids in your opinion and produces more engaging & forward vocals?

post #1173 of 1420
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3stun View Post
 

Which of them has better mids in your opinion and produces more engaging & forward vocals?

Hard to say at this point as I do not own both of them (I demoed both units in Japan and bought the BA200 there). Also depends on the type of music you listen to.

 

I found the IE800 a bit too detailed and 'bright' for me in longer listening sessions; it gets fatiguing. Underneath what to me was a little too bright, was however a perfectly balanced system: tight bass, great mids, and a treble extension that goes beyond the BA200 w/ deep insertion tips. Kind of regret not buying a pair also. They are, however, definitely:

-Brighter (and a lot more uppers/treble... try listening at lower volumes and it becomes ever clearer since that's probably all you will hear).

-Larger fitting--don't think of sleeping with these on. Meanwhile the BA200 fits nicely in the ear enough to sleep on em even as a side sleeper.

-Does not require deep insertion tips to sound its best, unlike the BA200 which loses more treble with shorter tips.

 

The BA200 is pretty straight on in my taste preferences so I settled for these instead of the FitEar MH/TG334 I was originally after. Cheaper alternative for similar sound signature, for better or for worse in specific areas.

 

I don't think there's a clear winner per say. Each singer has a different voice, and some will benefit more from having more body (BA200) while some with more clarity (IE800). Got any examples to your vocal test tracks?

 

DISCLAIMER: I believe from all I read on the forum that my ears are more sensitive to treble and sub bass than the average Head-Fier. So what is bright to me may not be the case for other people.


Edited by kalbee - 9/17/13 at 11:19am
post #1174 of 1420

Well, thanks kalbee!

I'm mostly into female vocals, different types... To name a few of my fav's: Shakira, Loreena McKennitt, Sharon den Adel (Within Temptation), Amy Lee (Evanescence). And also this talented girl.

So what do you say, IE800 or BA200 better for me?

I'm also considering other alternatives, like Hifiman RE-400, Phonak PFE... anything under $200.

Please check this thread if you have any advice for me, greatly appreciated!

post #1175 of 1420

^^

Well, in my experience, no one headphone/IEM is going to give you the best out of your music. The musicality of the genres changes with different headphones.

 

For instance, deep house is pretty much lifeless until the headphone/IEM can provide a good low frequency response (bass).

Jazz etc will be killed by anything that doesn't respond well in the mids and low highs.

Rock/Metal will need a good treble extension, otherwise it'll sound muddy.

 

So analyse your genre and decide.

 

I use the Sennheiser CX550 (good bass), Shure SE425 (excellent mids), and IE800 (good low/high balance).

 

 

However, full size headphones are better at covering a larger range of frequencies. I'm happy with my Sennheiser HD650 so far, seems to work well for most of my music.


Edited by proton007 - 9/17/13 at 5:42pm
post #1176 of 1420
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3stun View Post
 

Well, thanks kalbee!

I'm mostly into female vocals, different types... To name a few of my fav's: Shakira, Loreena McKennitt, Sharon den Adel (Within Temptation), Amy Lee (Evanescence). And also this talented girl.

So what do you say, IE800 or BA200 better for me?

I'm also considering other alternatives, like Hifiman RE-400, Phonak PFE... anything under $200.

Please check this thread if you have any advice for me, greatly appreciated!

Well it's sort of as proton007 says; none of these IEMs are perfect. Even the K3003, beautiful as it is, may not be the best sound for every genre. What would technically be the most versatile sound is most probably a completely flat one--it's also one of the less engaging sounds despite being accurate. A non-flat frequency response will essentially boost a few key areas, and depending on the specific music---instruments, singer, speed---will make one IEM better than another for different combinations.

 

As for full sized headphones being able to cover larger frequencies---that's not true at all. IEMs are equally capable, just that the soundstage department may not be as effective as headphones. The HD650 just happens to be a pretty good all-rounder.

 

I did see that thread actually... unfortunately I've tried many IEMs but not the RE400 nor the Phonak PFE. I did get to try the RE600 and I can only say a bit no. Still, that was a show demo model so it IS possible that it was slightly damaged.

 

Based on a few random YouTube video of some of the artists you mentioned, it seems it's still somewhat mixed. Someone like Loreena Mckennitt should benefit from better clarity that the BA200 does not exactly deliver but the IE800 can. Evanescence and the Skyrim cover on the other hand can work pretty well with the BA200. (Mind you, all of them are YouTube quality so who knows how the video's sound quality is like)

 

I guess another you can try is the KEF M200---if you use M or L tips usually. The IEM nozzle is really large so you won't be able to get a good fit unless your ear canal is sufficiently big. These one I actually REALLY liked but don't fit my ears :(

 

In the end though, if simply between the BA200 and the IE800 you should first ask yourself if you're okay with deep insertion IEMs. The stock tips sure go a good 1.5cm in the ear (the dual flange tips; the foam ones don't work as well for the sound). I think I'm leaning to the IE800 but if your Brainwavz B2 is already analytical (I never heard them though) perhaps the sound signature is close to the IE800 already?

 

And in the end, our ears are all pretty good at adapting to new sound signatures. So whatever you choose, as long as it is not terrible you should be able to enjoy your music plenty :D

post #1177 of 1420
Quote:
Originally Posted by kalbee View Post
 

 

As for full sized headphones being able to cover larger frequencies---that's not true at all. IEMs are equally capable, just that the soundstage department may not be as effective as headphones. The HD650 just happens to be a pretty good all-rounder.

 

 

I think I should've explained it in detail. A lot of IEMs are balanced armature types, and while they are very precise in mids and highs, they have trouble with bass. Thats why you see so many BA IEMs with 3+ drivers.

 

Thats the main difference between the BA200 and the IE800.  The BA200 is a balanced armature IEM, the IE800 is dynamic driver IEM.

 

I'd say the BA200 is more balanced, the IE800 is more musical.

 

Full size headphones are also dynamic drivers, but their size allows them to cover up a lot of deficiencies of the small size of IEM (you know, the size of the diaphragm in relation to the displacement required to produce a given frequency).

post #1178 of 1420
Quote:
Originally Posted by proton007 View Post
 

 

I think I should've explained it in detail. A lot of IEMs are balanced armature types, and while they are very precise in mids and highs, they have trouble with bass. Thats why you see so many BA IEMs with 3+ drivers.

 

Thats the main difference between the BA200 and the IE800.  The BA200 is a balanced armature IEM, the IE800 is dynamic driver IEM.

 

I'd say the BA200 is more balanced, the IE800 is more musical.

 

Full size headphones are also dynamic drivers, but their size allows them to cover up a lot of deficiencies of the small size of IEM (you know, the size of the diaphragm in relation to the displacement required to produce a given frequency).

Balanced armature IEMs often use multiple BAs to split the task, yes, but that isn't necessarily due to the bass deficiency. BA earphones simply share more design roots with speakers, with more specialized drivers for specific regions of sound reproduction. Even if you had 10 BAs that have trouble with bass, you still won't have proper bass. Number simply does not make better the sound, it's the implementation.

 

It's true that BA IEMs are generally more proficient at upper mids and highs, giving them a colder, clearer sound. The TDK BA700 is a good example, but that's not for every case. The BA200 for one does not fall in that category.

 

Yes, the BA200's are dual BA and the IE800 are dual dynamics. The normal person would assume the IE800s would be the warmer of the two. Completely the opposite. In fact the BA200s kind of lack what you typically find in single BA IEMs. Both somewhat come out as the opposite of what common sense tells us---which means the 'main difference' between the two is practically nil as far as explanation goes.

 

Full sized headphones do not all use dynamic drivers (but none are BA for obvious reasons). It may be the case for the HD650 but shouldn't be generalized. As far as the size of diaphragm to produce specific frequencies---yes, it helps (i.e. makes it easier) but is not the defining quality. If I told you the Dero D-1000 has a 50mm driver, what is going to be most people's first reaction? Ah! bass! Sadly wrong, it has little to no bass. We shouldn't undermine the efforts put into diaphragm design, which not only deals with all those little creases we see but with diaphragm material, thickness, and size/weight of voice coils. Some things based on typical designs will be true---like how bassy drivers are more prone to flexing, but not all of it.

post #1179 of 1420
Quote:
Originally Posted by kalbee View Post
 

Well it's sort of as proton007 says; none of these IEMs are perfect. Even the K3003, beautiful as it is, may not be the best sound for every genre. What would technically be the most versatile sound is most probably a completely flat one--it's also one of the less engaging sounds despite being accurate. A non-flat frequency response will essentially boost a few key areas, and depending on the specific music---instruments, singer, speed---will make one IEM better than another for different combinations.

 

I guess another you can try is the KEF M200---if you use M or L tips usually. The IEM nozzle is really large so you won't be able to get a good fit unless your ear canal is sufficiently big. These one I actually REALLY liked but don't fit my ears :(

 

In the end though, if simply between the BA200 and the IE800 you should first ask yourself if you're okay with deep insertion IEMs. The stock tips sure go a good 1.5cm in the ear (the dual flange tips; the foam ones don't work as well for the sound). I think I'm leaning to the IE800 but if your Brainwavz B2 is already analytical (I never heard them though) perhaps the sound signature is close to the IE800 already?

 

And in the end, our ears are all pretty good at adapting to new sound signatures. So whatever you choose, as long as it is not terrible you should be able to enjoy your music plenty :D

Thanks! I think the best option for me is to try several not very expensive ($100-150) iem's with different sound signatures to determine my musical tastes. When I know what exactly I'm looking for, I might try to go higher league.

I will check KEF M200, but my ear canals are not very big and I normally use small tips (at least this goes for Shure olives).

Back to topic - how would you guys compare BA200 vs. Shure 530? Both are dual-armatures, both are known for quality mids & bass.

post #1180 of 1420
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3stun View Post
 

Thanks! I think the best option for me is to try several not very expensive ($100-150) iem's with different sound signatures to determine my musical tastes. When I know what exactly I'm looking for, I might try to go higher league.

I will check KEF M200, but my ear canals are not very big and I normally use small tips (at least this goes for Shure olives).

Back to topic - how would you guys compare BA200 vs. Shure 530? Both are dual-armatures, both are known for quality mids & bass.

 

Shure still sells the 530? I think its the 535 thats currently sold.

post #1181 of 1420
Quote:
Originally Posted by proton007 View Post
 

 

Shure still sells the 530? I think its the 535 thats currently sold.

 

You can get a used one for $200-250 or lower if you're lucky enough.

post #1182 of 1420
Quote:
Originally Posted by kalbee View Post
 

Balanced armature IEMs often use multiple BAs to split the task, yes, but that isn't necessarily due to the bass deficiency. BA earphones simply share more design roots with speakers, with more specialized drivers for specific regions of sound reproduction. Even if you had 10 BAs that have trouble with bass, you still won't have proper bass. Number simply does not make better the sound, it's the implementation.

 

 

Not because of the bass alone. BA drivers tend to have smaller frequency range, so generally a triple driver configuration with crossover is needed to get the bass, mids and treble extension.

The bass issue occurs because of the size of the driver. Bass needs air to be moved around, and BA's are pretty small.

 

This is one of the reasons the IE800 is a longer IEM as compared to the 'fit in the ear' flatness of the BA200. I think this may affect the soundstage as well.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by kalbee View Post

 

It's true that BA IEMs are generally more proficient at upper mids and highs, giving them a colder, clearer sound. The TDK BA700 is a good example, but that's not for every case. The BA200 for one does not fall in that category.

 

Yes, the BA200's are dual BA and the IE800 are dual dynamics. The normal person would assume the IE800s would be the warmer of the two. Completely the opposite. In fact the BA200s kind of lack what you typically find in single BA IEMs. Both somewhat come out as the opposite of what common sense tells us---which means the 'main difference' between the two is practically nil as far as explanation goes.

 

 

Well, that may be a design decision, but I'd never expect a dynamic driver to have a particular sound, because their design allows for a lot of flexibility. Not so much in the BAs. You can only do so much with two drivers, and need to increase the number beyond a certain point, increasing the price.

post #1183 of 1420
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3stun View Post
 

 

You can get a used one for $200-250 or lower if you're lucky enough.

 

I think you can start with the BA200. Its pretty neutral. Then branch out from there.

post #1184 of 1420
Quote:
Originally Posted by proton007 View Post
 

^^

Well, in my experience, no one headphone/IEM is going to give you the best out of your music. The musicality of the genres changes with different headphones.

 

For instance, deep house is pretty much lifeless until the headphone/IEM can provide a good low frequency response (bass).

Jazz etc will be killed by anything that doesn't respond well in the mids and low highs.

Rock/Metal will need a good treble extension, otherwise it'll sound muddy.

 

So analyse your genre and decide.

 

I use the Sennheiser CX550 (good bass), Shure SE425 (excellent mids), and IE800 (good low/high balance).

 

 

However, full size headphones are better at covering a larger range of frequencies. I'm happy with my Sennheiser HD650 so far, seems to work well for most of my music.

 

I definitely like your concept of using multiple IEM's, each for its type of music. Although my wallet might be not very happy about it :)

And thanks for mentioning Shure SE425, I am going to consider it for my purpose as well. Excellent mids is what I am after now, but the price of Shure SE530/535 is a bit too much.
post #1185 of 1420
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3stun View Post

I definitely like your concept of using multiple IEM's, each for its type of music. Although my wallet might be not very happy about it smily_headphones1.gif
And thanks for mentioning Shure SE425, I am going to consider it for my purpose as well. Excellent mids is what I am after now, but the price of Shure SE530/535 is a bit too much.

You can read up more on the Shures here:
http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/shure-ear-series-se215-se315-se425-and-se535-page-2

If your music is more vocal focused, or has extensive use of string/wind instruments, I think Shure can be an excellent choice.
Edited by proton007 - 9/18/13 at 3:22am
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