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Who still has the Sony SA5000? - Page 5

post #61 of 580
Thread Starter 

Found this posted 11/19/10 by Audiogalore

 

 

Quote:

Okay most of you that been reading my threads now that I own both the Little Dot MK VI and the Woo WA-6SE. Both are fine product and deserve merit.

 

I would like to further comment that the mystery between the Woo WA22 and the Little Dot MK VI can now be discussed as to which is overall better performer.

 

I had the opportunity to evaluate both side by side with the same source material, source, cabling interconnects and headphones for the last few days.

 

The WA22 with the EML 5U4G/7236 upgrade does drive my K1000 however very high on the volume pot 2-3 o'clock position at low music transit such as Classical pieces.

 

The Little Dot MK VI with the 6AS7G/Tung-Sol 6LS7 Russian reissued drives the K1000 with authority and detail regardless of music selection with no strain at 11-12 o'clock position.

 

The Woo is smooth and silky through out the music passage were the Little Dot is definitely more dynamic and detailed with more information.

 

As far as the lo/hi impedance range, even with the Little Dot being OTL, again as I have previously mentioned in other threads it drove all my headphones from 25-600 ohms flawless.

 

Enjoy music!

 

post #62 of 580

Interesting thread, figured I'd weigh in as I have some fairly recent experience with the SA5000. I tried them out earlier this year (month or so ago, now). I found my K701 to be better than the SA5000 in every way possible, and the MDR-F1 to be the headphone I was hoping the SA5000 to be (a good complement to the K701; it's better in some regards, worse in others - it stayed, the SA5000 did not). The talk of dampening in the SA5000 housing has me thinking of the F1's "Acoustic Bass Lens" (and despite half of the English section of the manual being devoted to this feature and why it makes the F1 the best thing since sliced bread, they hardly describe it any meaningful way, the pictures make it look like a big piece of unobtanium between the driver and the protective grille though - sort of like what the markl mod did for Denon drivers). 

 

I'm curious in reading more about the "fake SA5000s."

 

 


Edited by obobskivich - 12/3/11 at 12:59am
post #63 of 580

 

^It's quite useless when you give a verdict on a headphone when you don't detail at least the amp that you've used with them. The SA5k is a great headphone but it's very depandant on the right amp to put some weight on it to really get going, much like the HD800's. Going from the clean but lean WA6 to the warm Stello HP100 made a massive improvemnt to the tonal weight, then from the slightly treble-tilted SPL Auditor they just sounded incredibly clear and spacious but again not enough bosom (the bottom was good though :)_) and a bit too dry with vocals and strings. Later (they were no longer mine but they stay close by) i had tried them with the AT-HA5000. Now that was something truly nice... I think i've enjoyed this pairing more than the W5000 with it, which is saying the sound was just spot-on to my ears, and i remember some serious contamplation about diminishing returns when looking at my Stax O2 rig... well yeah, i'm exaggerating, It's wasn't really comparable but it's just the most superb dynamic setup IME. 

 

Btw, I also have the the F1's, I like them a lot myself and  they definitley have better tonality then the SA5K (and most others i heard) and very nice out-of-head sound projection, but overall they don't comeclose to their younger counterpart technical merits, no by a stretch. 

 

Edited by Amarphael - 12/3/11 at 1:44am
post #64 of 580

 

To expand a little bit more: I found the SA5000 to have a 2D soundstage coupled with a less than stellar upper midrange/lower treble which made some music sound quite unnatural. They also weren't comfortable enough to wear for 6-8 hours straight. I found the K701 superior in that regard, and the F1 more complementary. The SA5000's only real merit was bass extension on certain electronic tracks, but I have (and have had) closed headphones that absolutely put them to shame in that regard (they are, quite understandably, not as detailed though). There is no "one answer" in terms of the best headphone - if your answer is the SA5000, that's great! It isn't my answer though. 

 

This wasn't an appreciation thread, so I figured sharing was worthwile. Don't interpret my response as a "these are a bad headphone" - they are good at what they do (and I'm not entirely clear what that is ph34r.gif), but they're fairly specialized in terms of what they excel with, and what they flounder with (in terms of music). I think my issue isn't so much with amplification, as it is with what I listen to. k701smile.gif 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amarphael View Post

 

^It's quite useless when you give a verdict on a headphone when you don't detail at least the amp that you've used with them. The SA5k is a great headphone but it's very depandant on the right amp to put some weight on it to really get going, much like the HD800's. Going from the clean but lean WA6 to the warm Stello HP100 made a massive improvemnt to the tonal weight, then from the slightly treble-tilted SPL Auditor they just sounded incredibly clear and spacious but again not enough bosom (the bottom was good though :)_) and a bit too dry with vocals and strings. Later (they were no longer mine but they stay close by) i had tried them with the AT-HA5000. Now that was something truly nice... I think i've enjoyed this pairing more than the W5000 with it, which is saying the sound was just spot-on to my ears, and i remember some serious contamplation about diminishing returns when looking at my Stax O2 rig... well yeah, i'm exaggerating, It's wasn't really comparable but it's just the most superb dynamic setup IME. 

 

Btw, I also have the the F1's, I like them a lot myself and  they definitley have better tonality then the SA5K (and most others i heard) and very nice out-of-head sound projection, but overall they don't comeclose to their younger counterpart technical merits, no by a stretch. 

 


 


Edited by obobskivich - 12/3/11 at 2:43am
post #65 of 580

Well i really didn't mean to come down on you for taking a negetaive stance here. It's obviously not an appreciation thread as you pointed out. I just wanted to clarify the point of putting your impression in contexst with the the gear you've used to evalute, something which you're reluctant to do, but that's fine within the scope of your earlier post.

post #66 of 580

I'm seeing a pattern emerging... those that enjoy the Sony SA's discuss their setup as it's important to the overall sound... those that dislike them don't mention source or amplification.

 

I hate the Sony SA5000 out of my iPod, such a lifeless, thin sound.

post #67 of 580


That's really interesting. I think the SA5000 has a huge soundstage and are very light and comfortable. I also like my K701, but I don't think they have the same level of soundstage (but quite large with a balanced amp). I also think the K701 are the least comfortable headphones I've owned. Those bumps in the headband leave me sore for days. I actually just replaced it with a K601 headband. I think you are my headphones opposite! biggrin.gif

 

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by obobskivich View Post

 

To expand a little bit more: I found the SA5000 to have a 2D soundstage coupled with a less than stellar upper midrange/lower treble which made some music sound quite unnatural. They also weren't comfortable enough to wear for 6-8 hours straight. I found the K701 superior in that regard, and the F1 more complementary. The SA5000's only real merit was bass extension on certain electronic tracks, but I have (and have had) closed headphones that absolutely put them to shame in that regard (they are, quite understandably, not as detailed though). There is no "one answer" in terms of the best headphone - if your answer is the SA5000, that's great! It isn't my answer though. 

 

This wasn't an appreciation thread, so I figured sharing was worthwile. Don't interpret my response as a "these are a bad headphone" - they are good at what they do (and I'm not entirely clear what that is ph34r.gif), but they're fairly specialized in terms of what they excel with, and what they flounder with (in terms of music). I think my issue isn't so much with amplification, as it is with what I listen to. k701smile.gif 

 



 



 

post #68 of 580


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amarphael View Post

Well i really didn't mean to come down on you for taking a negetaive stance here. It's obviously not an appreciation thread as you pointed out. I just wanted to clarify the point of putting your impression in contexst with the the gear you've used to evalute, something which you're reluctant to do, but that's fine within the scope of your earlier post.



Oh, I forgot to list my equipment, DOH!

 

I was using my CI VHP1 primarily, but I tried them with my Yamaha receiver and Kenwood separates (vintage, not modern). Variety of sources - CDP, LDP, BDP, and the PC (ABCDEFG...). I have no idea regarding the whole "ideal synergy" thing for the SA5000, I know that my K701s sing with the CI, and my HD-580s do better with the Yamaha. Perhaps a thousand plus dollar amplifier would make a difference for me, perhaps not; I wasn't impressed enough to find out (whereas with, say, the K701's - truly love at first sight). 



Quote:
Originally Posted by Graphicism View Post

I'm seeing a pattern emerging... those that enjoy the Sony SA's discuss their setup as it's important to the overall sound... those that dislike them don't mention source or amplification.

 

I hate the Sony SA5000 out of my iPod, such a lifeless, thin sound.


Hah! I've seen those threads about the K701 and HD600 in the past, I understand the sentiment. I actually didn't even think to try such a thing (they never even got plugged into a CDP or cassette deck to give'em a listen).

I think part of my issue with them was genre selection - I don't think I was picking the "right" music for them (the electronica I did try, they did deliver everything that's been said and more; everything else, not so much). Again, I didn't find them thin or lifeless, I just didn't like the overall signature - the soundstage had a lot of side-to-side and up-and-down but no front-to-back, and the upper mids were just "weird." 

 



Quote:
Originally Posted by elwappo99 View Post


That's really interesting. I think the SA5000 has a huge soundstage and are very light and comfortable. I also like my K701, but I don't think they have the same level of soundstage (but quite large with a balanced amp). I also think the K701 are the least comfortable headphones I've owned. Those bumps in the headband leave me sore for days. I actually just replaced it with a K601 headband. I think you are my headphones opposite! biggrin.gif

 

 

 



 

Oh I've heard that before. It's alright. I gave up trying to figure out why the K701 is the most comfortable thing I've yet worn, and why most headphones described as "very comfortable" are just awful (Denon AH-D2000, SA5000, etc). beerchug.gif 
 

 

post #69 of 580
Thread Starter 

I should be able to pick these up in a couple weeks but it will be at least 2 more weeks before I can afford even a cheap amp (Fiio E10). I wasn't looking forward to trying to listen to the SA5000 out of my Samsung Epic 4G. However I just rooted my phone and installed a custom ROM ("Legendary") which has Voodoo sound with drivers to enable the use of the internal Wolfson WM8994, now has alot more power and should at least be passable till I can get some decent amps. Btw, looking at getting a Fostex HP-P1 for portable use later on.

post #70 of 580

I'd skip the E10 and just save up for the tube amp. Also the SA5k need a good source like nothing else... muddy phones like Denon and even HD650 to some extent don't rely on a source like bright phones such as the Sony's do. Ideally you want a very analogue sounding source, fully discrete to boot. When all is said and done to make the SA5ks sing you're looking at another grand, not including the phones... 

post #71 of 580
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Graphicism View Post

I'd skip the E10 and just save up for the tube amp. Also the SA5k need a good source like nothing else... muddy phones like Denon and even HD650 to some extent don't rely on a source like bright phones such as the Sony's do. Ideally you want a very analogue sounding source, fully discrete to boot. When all is said and done to make the SA5ks sing you're looking at another grand, not including the phones... 

I figured on that in the long run but it will be awhile before I can shell out that much dough. I already figured out an upgrade path over a couple years for my budget; Fiio E10 then an inexpensive tube amp like the Ming Da I mentioned or Musical Paradise MP-301 MKII (with Gold Lion KT77 or such) with the Fiio E10 as Dac till I upgrade to a better DAC, Devilsound or Teradak (both NOS) at the very least with a preference with several better DAC's in the $550-1000 range I've been looking at. Then a later upgrade to a Balanced amp like the Little Dot MKVI+ or Vioelectric HPA V181 if I feel it in still needed.
 

 


Edited by AzraelDarkangel - 12/5/11 at 5:38pm
post #72 of 580
Quote:
Originally Posted by AzraelDarkangel View Post

I figured on that in the long run but it will be awhile before I can shell out that much dough. I already figured out an upgrade path over a couple years for my budget; Fiio E10 then an inexpensive tube amp like the Ming Da I mentioned or Musical Paradise MP-301 MKII (with Gold Lion KT77 or such) with the Fiio E10 as Dac till I upgrade to a better DAC, Devilsound or Teradak (both NOS) at the very least with a preference with several better DAC's in the $550-1000 range I've been looking at. Then a later upgrade to a Balanced amp like the Little Dot MKVI+ or Vioelectric HPA V181 if I feel it in still needed.
 


Well if you can do that great, but realistically I see you buying the phones and an E10, disliking the sound and selling them. I suppose I see a lot of members buying phones and selling them before they have a chance to hear them properly. Also I think there are cheaper headphones than the SA5k that don't need much if any amping and as a result sound better, it's an easier, quicker option to good audio.

post #73 of 580
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Graphicism View Post


Well if you can do that great, but realistically I see you buying the phones and an E10, disliking the sound and selling them. I suppose I see a lot of members buying phones and selling them before they have a chance to hear them properly. Also I think there are cheaper headphones than the SA5k that don't need much if any amping and as a result sound better, it's an easier, quicker option to good audio.


I try not to have unrealistic expectations, plus I have a minor advantage of not having yet been spoiled by the really good headphones out there. The best headphones I've heard are unamped Grado SR80i's. Also it's both a good learning experience and educational experience for others as I try out the SA5000 under a variety of equipment as I slowly upgrade. Also at least I know that one piece of gear at least is close to reference level and will improve as I go up the food chain. If the sound sig bothers me on cheap equipment there's always EQ and bass boost, lol.

 

post #74 of 580

If anyone is interested, I have a custom-build Rockhopper M^3 amp that I bought FOR the SA5000, and made certain upgrades to compliment the SA5000 sound signature. I'm putting it up for sale soon, but would rather see it go to an SA5000 owner. PM me if interested. It sounds splendid!

post #75 of 580
Originally Posted by Graphicism View Post
...realistically I see you buying the phones and an E10, disliking the sound and selling them...

+1 (actually +2 for me since I did this sort of thing twice)

Originally Posted by Graphicism View Post
...there are cheaper headphones than the SA5k that don't need much if any amping and as a result sound better, it's an easier, quicker option to good audio.

+1 again. But, I only regret the second time I bought the SA5K. The first time was a great learning experience. It's always good to experience different types of sound, and the SA5K is nothing if not unique.

 

However, if you're on a budget...

 

Then again, the Rockhopper offer sounds interesting...

 


 

 

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