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Who still has the Sony SA5000? - Page 22

post #316 of 580
a_recording, you could of probably used some plain craft foam instead around the baffle. i think it would be cleaner and simpler approach. i got some of that stuff yesterday i ordered cause i was gonna use it for my sa5000 and i used it for pair of stax sr-202 with little strips i cut to distance the pads a bit from the ears. i worked on the stax but not the sa5000 yet. never really found the sa5000 resonate,metallic or loose stock with simple cotton underneath the pads i used to distance the pads a bit. highs was never too much bothersome either since they were super smooth. just some tracks they had little edge to them but that was cause of the recording.
post #317 of 580
Quote:
Originally Posted by obobskivich View Post


I get what you're saying. I would suggest, if you can, an MDR-F1 audition (if you haven't already). It *might* (*might*) be what you're looking for here. Less bass, but I certainly would agree with that "sweetness" or "tonal balance" bit - the F1 has it spades. It just swings. The SA5000 does a lot better, but it feels more technical about it too. Again, at least worth a try. Otherwise, tweak away! Your posts thus far have been very interesting! beerchug.gif

 

Actually, almost all my tweaks have also been trying to increase the bass, which is the area I find they are most deficient in... though I'm curious about the F1!

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by RexAeterna View Post

a_recording, you could of probably used some plain craft foam instead around the baffle. i think it would be cleaner and simpler approach. i got some of that stuff yesterday i ordered cause i was gonna use it for my sa5000 and i used it for pair of stax sr-202 with little strips i cut to distance the pads a bit from the ears. i worked on the stax but not the sa5000 yet. never really found the sa5000 resonate,metallic or loose stock with simple cotton underneath the pads i used to distance the pads a bit. highs was never too much bothersome either since they were super smooth. just some tracks they had little edge to them but that was cause of the recording.

 

Yeah, its hard to say. I don't exactly think they sound harsh stock... just... something about their balance.

 

Nvm though - I think I've found a solution I'm happy with, though I've layered all sorts of stuff on.

 

With the HiFiMan pads, the mids become sweeter - kind of like how I remember the AD2000's sounding. One issue though is that they get a little sibilant, not sure exactly why.

 

Following on from the idea of the "acoustic lens" in the MA900, and this suggestion from Nevod in this post:

 

350x297px-LL-5b71b5d0_Feltw38cmhole.jpeg

 

Nevod's photo, not mine, but the idea is the same.

 

 

Quote:
"This is a bass lens applied to an HE-6 earpad to reduce their brightness. The idea is simple - layer of dampening material with an opening. Reduces high frequency content coming from driver's edges while passing lows through and at the same time not interfering with the high frequency content coming from under the opening, thus not mudding the sound. May be used in various shapes, I actually now use an kind of reverse lens on my T20s - a felt square at the center of the driver with edges open."

 

I tried cutting a similar sort of felt ring for the MA900. So the result is that I have more bass punch like the M50 pads, though with sweeter mids, and a better soundstage as the the velour pads are harder and increase the distance from the ear. Still retain that lightning fast sound and detail, though of course the treble is attenuated. One concern is that the pads naturally will be more stuffy and hot, but I'll see how it goes.

 

My advice is if you want to try this: use white felt, so that it's easier to see if the felt disc has been positioned correctly over the driver. I tried to cut a diameter of hole to exclude the outer ring of the driver.

post #318 of 580
i wonder if going completely open will increase it's bass extension since it will allow longer wave lengths to travel/escape thus increasing extension as long as the pads around your ears are coupling nicely with a tight seal to trap the air pressure? just an idea when i worked on a friend's sr-202 cause it's completely free-air in the back(with some transparent speaker cloth i used though to replace the rotted foam with) and has very nice forceful impact. wonder if removing the felt behind the sa5000 drivers that's covering the opening might help. just guessing here.
post #319 of 580
Quote:
Originally Posted by RexAeterna View Post

i wonder if going completely open will increase it's bass extension since it will allow longer wave lengths to travel/escape thus increasing extension as long as the pads around your ears are coupling nicely with a tight seal to trap the air pressure? just an idea when i worked on a friend's sr-202 cause it's completely free-air in the back(with some transparent speaker cloth i used though to replace the rotted foam with) and has very nice forceful impact. wonder if removing the felt behind the sa5000 drivers that's covering the opening might help. just guessing here.

 

I'm not sure. When I removed the felt disc from the SA3000's the headphones seemed harsher. It may have been reflections from the exposed metal grille.

post #320 of 580
that can be true. i think though that can be counter acted by using piece of foam or cloth in front of the driver to slow down the short sound waves thus decreasing the high frequency passing through to the ear. it's how i'm seeing it in my head right now but never tried practicing it in person yet. just so far just my imagination. might work and might not. maybe thinking too extra thin foam maybe inside the enclosure around next to the already felt might help prevent enclosure cancellations of certain frequencies as well. or can do simple as trying small thing of polyfill inside to not only slow down enclosure reflections by slowing the short waves while allowing the longer waves to travel freely without being retrained. don't know though. these are just ideas coming to me now. might work or not.
post #321 of 580
Quote:
Originally Posted by Graphicism View Post


Yes I believe so, there has been talk of placing SA5k pads on a 3k to see if they sound identical but I don't think anyone's done this as yet. The leather pads do give you better bass at the expense of loosing some air to the music, similar effect is also seen with replacing the velour pads on Beyers.

 

I paid for the SA-3K, around $100 shipped...I have been asked on the FS forum to pay $70 for the SA5k pads (I think the price was before the shipping). I the like SA3K, but the Sony cable already got disconnected on one side, and know to invest in a new cable, I think I'll go for the Mogami w2534 neglex quad as my K-702 : )

 

http://www.head-fi.org/t/378255/akg-k702-build-your-own-cable

 

With the SA-3K I definitely can go for a warmer cable.

post #322 of 580
Quote:
Originally Posted by RexAeterna View Post

that can be true. i think though that can be counter acted by using piece of foam or cloth in front of the driver to slow down the short sound waves thus decreasing the high frequency passing through to the ear. it's how i'm seeing it in my head right now but never tried practicing it in person yet. just so far just my imagination. might work and might not. maybe thinking too extra thin foam maybe inside the enclosure around next to the already felt might help prevent enclosure cancellations of certain frequencies as well. or can do simple as trying small thing of polyfill inside to not only slow down enclosure reflections by slowing the short waves while allowing the longer waves to travel freely without being retrained. don't know though. these are just ideas coming to me now. might work or not.

 

I'm not sure how removing the felt disc, and then putting in polyfill or other damping material, will further your goal of making an open headphone XD I tend to think that by putting the mass damping material on the baffle inside the enclosure I've done all I can as far as the internals go. The baffle which looked a little non-rigid was the only issue I had with the design, in my amateur hour understanding.  

 

Overall I'm also wary of doing anything that causes the headphones to lose too much efficiency, since the measurements of the SA5000 (and almost all the other Sony headphones) demonstrate significant distortion in the low frequencies as volume increases.

 

Sometimes, I feel like its a bit of hubris to think that I can make improvements to a headphone that was obviously designed by educated engineers to be a premium sound experience. At the same time though I feel like the process of modding is also a chance to spend a lot of time and energy experimenting with things that the engineers may not have had the time, available resources or manpower to implement - or maybe even an entire other set of concern, such as consistency or durability. I'm only trying to make changes to things that I understand on some intuitive level - ie: the driver shakes the baffle the plastic makes a noise etc

post #323 of 580
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acix View Post

 

I paid for the SA-3K, around $100 shipped...I have been asked on the FS forum to pay $70 for the SA5k pads (I think the price was before the shipping). I the like SA3K, but the Sony cable already got disconnected on one side, and know to invest in a new cable, I think I'll go for the Mogami w2534 neglex quad as my K-702 : )

 

http://www.head-fi.org/t/378255/akg-k702-build-your-own-cable

 

With the SA-3K I definitely can go for a warmer cable.

 

I'm not sure how you would recable the SA3k depending on where it's broken, considering that it's a single entry cable?

 

I don't really think the SA5k pads are all that great, or at least not my pair. The leather seems pretty hard and uncomfortable. I'm waiting on a pair of Denon pads and then I can decide whether I like the Denon or HiFiMan pads more.

post #324 of 580
Quote:
Originally Posted by a_recording View Post

 

I'm not sure how you would recable the SA3k depending on where it's broken, considering that it's a single entry cable?

 

I don't really think the SA5k pads are all that great, or at least not my pair. The leather seems pretty hard and uncomfortable. I'm waiting on a pair of Denon pads and then I can decide whether I like the Denon or HiFiMan pads more.

 

I'm going to take the cable out, and replacing with a new quad cable that have 4 wires inside.

 

images.jpeg

post #325 of 580
Quote:
Originally Posted by a_recording View Post

I don't really think the SA5k pads are all that great, or at least not my pair. The leather seems pretty hard and uncomfortable. I

really? the pair i was given has very nice soft leather pads and find them very comfortable. not hard or rough. weird.
post #326 of 580
Quote:
Originally Posted by a_recording View Post

I'm not sure how removing the felt disc, and then putting in polyfill or other damping material, will further your goal of making an open headphone XD

i know lol. just was an idea for replacing the felt and stuff.
post #327 of 580
Quote:
Originally Posted by a_recording View Post

Actually, almost all my tweaks have also been trying to increase the bass, which is the area I find they are most deficient in... though I'm curious about the F1!

The F1 have less bass (than nearly anything), but it's more "flat" or "extended" - sort of what Rex is talking about with making the SA5000 "full open." The bass sort of just fades off into blackness, while the SA5000 have that "last hurrah" around 100hz before they jump off a cliff.

I'm thinking there's probably no way to increase bass response without adding a lot of resonance (which would cost you clarity/speed) or lots of weight. The bass lens might work, but it will likely chop up the mids/treble (I'm thinking about the K701's lens, and reports of F1 users who have removed the lens from their cans).

I'm guessing EQ is not cutting it for you?
post #328 of 580
Quote:
Originally Posted by obobskivich View Post

The F1 have less bass (than nearly anything), but it's more "flat" or "extended" - sort of what Rex is talking about with making the SA5000 "full open." The bass sort of just fades off into blackness, while the SA5000 have that "last hurrah" around 100hz before they jump off a cliff.
I'm thinking there's probably no way to increase bass response without adding a lot of resonance (which would cost you clarity/speed) or lots of weight. The bass lens might work, but it will likely chop up the mids/treble (I'm thinking about the K701's lens, and reports of F1 users who have removed the lens from their cans).
I'm guessing EQ is not cutting it for you?

 

Ahaha. I hate EQ, I have no idea why. I think its the hassle of switching between headphones and then switching between EQ, and also a superstitious fear of that bit-perfect thing. It definitely is interesting that the SA5000 does seem to have that upper bass hump. All I can say is that I'm pretty happy with the sound and comfort now, after all these changes! (I was happy about the sound before on the M50 pads, but increasingly comfort was a real problem).

post #329 of 580
Quote:
Originally Posted by a_recording View Post

Ahaha. I hate EQ, I have no idea why. I think its the hassle of switching between headphones and then switching between EQ, and also a superstitious fear of that bit-perfect thing. It definitely is interesting that the SA5000 does seem to have that upper bass hump. All I can say is that I'm pretty happy with the sound and comfort now, after all these changes! (I was happy about the sound before on the M50 pads, but increasingly comfort was a real problem).

There's nothing wrong with EQ if it's implemented properly. That said, you can only EQ FR, not resonance, and then there are still limits.

The SA5000 are a proto-vcurve 'phone imho - they have the bumps but none of the boom or sibilance.
post #330 of 580

Ahaha. I'm very happy now. My SA5000's makes my EX1000 sounds congested and fuzzy in comparison. I think I've got the right formula! There's nothing I would change now, except if I could get more sub-bass - but as suggested, I don't think there is anyway I can do that without EQ. I don't mind though, I'm really happy, and really enjoying them. Now, to wait until a meet where I can bring them and get some second opinions!

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