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Q701 impressions thread - Page 410

post #6136 of 8296

Is @tdockweiler still active?  It'd be nice to see those graphs linked in the first post for posterity.

post #6137 of 8296
Quote:
Originally Posted by GirgleMirt View Post
 

Actually it's the opposite if you look at the FR graphs.  The roll-off of the non-stickered Q701 starts higher than the stock Q701, and the roll-off of the stock Q701 is steeper because of it; hence; more bass extension.  Seems to basically trade some bass extension (30-80hz mainly) & flatness for more mid-bass, although the mid-bass does seem a bit more in line with the mids and treble.

Very interesting thanks a lot for the measurements Nec3!  :beerchug:

 

No, you have it backwards.....:confused_face_2:

Roll-off of non stickered version has a lower hinge point, a lower corner point.

Non-stickered has more bass 30-80 Hz.


Edited by Chris J - 3/26/14 at 5:41pm
post #6138 of 8296
+1 on first post sticky! Also would be great over at the AKG bass-mod thread if you want to chime in @Nec3

Does the ZoomH4N do waterfall plots? It'd be interesting to see if there's a loss of control with the bass mod.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nec3 View Post


*************
Now, how did I do this? Well I wouldn't say it's innerfidelity or golden ears or by any means, NOT EVEN CLOSE to professional room isolations and considerations.
I have a pc build that's at a moderate hum, a fish tank that needs 4 litres of water replacing, and my brother running upstairs.
Oh and before I forget, I'm using a Zoom H4N shoved directly into the headphone, and the Zoom H4N has a frequency response of its' own that actually enhances the treble in vocals.


However before I did the test, I matched the frequency response chart as close as I can to the original Q701's before doing anything.

Rant over, here's the graphs, both (messy) step response and frequency response charts! Let me know what you guys think.

Below is the Q701 Step Response (no sticker) (Click to show)
Below is the Q701 Frequency Response (no sticker) (Click to show)
Below is the Q701 Step Response (with sticker) (Click to show)
Below is the Q701 Frequency Response (with sticker) (Click to show)
Below is the A-B Frequency response chart (Click to show)

 

I would like to emphasize that the Zoom H4N frequency response chart I posted above to be regarded.
As there is a clear indication that there is a boost in the treble area, in which I have drawn a line in the single frequency response charts.

In summary:
What I heard through my ears, and forget the graphs, because some things can't be physically measured by me.
Is a small reduction in soundstage surface area/width (not depth), it's not major if you have the Q701's amped though.
Less mids, and in my opinion, I think the bass makes the mids a bit muddy due to the reduction in soundstage and increase in bass.

More bass extension, bass indeed still feels solid.

My equipment:
AKG Q701 <- ODAC/O2
Measured with a Zoom H4N, software big thanks to Room EQ Wizard. (Loving EQ Wizard, back to my Fostex T50RP modding now!)

If you want these images for yourself to quickly go through, here it is!

If you want the .mdat file because you have Room Eq Wizard, here it is!
OH NOE, THE IMAGES ARE MISSING! Email me at andrew.siri@hotmail.com

post #6139 of 8296

 ***WARNING I HAD REVERSED MODDED (Sticker) and Stock (No sticker) ***

  ***** so all this post is BACKWARDS!!!  *****

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris J View Post
Quote:

Originally Posted by GirgleMirt View Post
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris J View Post
 

 

Wholly crap!

removing the sticker makes flatter and more extended bass?

 

Actually it's the opposite if you look at the FR graphs.  The roll-off of the non-stickered Q701 starts higher than the stock Q701, and the roll-off of the stock Q701 is steeper because of it; hence; more bass extension.  Seems to basically trade some bass extension (30-80hz mainly) & flatness for more mid-bass, although the mid-bass does seem a bit more in line with the mids and treble.

Very interesting thanks a lot for the measurements Nec3!  :beerchug:

 

No, you have it backwards.....:confused_face_2:

Roll-off of non stickered version has a lower hinge point, a lower corner point.

Non-stickered has more bass 30-80 Hz.

 

 

***WARNING I HAD REVERSED MODDED (Sticker) and Stock (No sticker)***

  ***** so this post is BACKWARDS!!!  *****

 

Did I?  Don't think I did, seems accurate! 

- The roll-off of the non-stickered Q701 starts higher than the stock Q701 -- Check   Meaning bass starts to decrease at a higher frequency.

- the roll-off of the stock Q701 is steeper because of it -- Check   Meaning the bass decrease is less gradual, it goes down lower in frequency without reducing the output much (60hz), until it drops and then it reaches the same 20hz mark as the modded Q701.  The modded output start to decrease at around 175Hz it looks like.

- hence; more bass extension.  or...  Maybe I should have just said better bass response..  Anyhow..

 

 

 

 

Purple is stock and teal is sticker.  Oh you're talking <20hz?  lol  that's really not really a big difference compared to 40-80hz.   Anyway, it depends how you read the graph.  The stock's bass is flatter than the modded from 60 to 600hz.  The modded has much more of a hump shape and it's bass roll off starts at 150hz vs the stock's 70hz.  They both reach 20hz at about -14dB, making the stock FR roll-off steeper.

 

IMHO, the 2-3 dB difference at like 15hz would not be audible or significant, but the 2-3dBs difference from 30 to 80hz might very well make a difference.  A huge part of that is because there's much more 30-80hz content in music than there is at 15hz...   Also if you compare say 200hz and 50hz say, modded are -7dB vs the stock's like 3dB...  So the stock's bass 'balance' seems to me better than the modded.   In other words, your low bass is more balanced with your mid/high bass than on the modded version.  On the modded version, lower bass might seem more drowned out by the mid/high bass.  

 

The overall bass balance of the modded seems a bit more in line with the mids and treble though, where the stock's overall bass response is weaker compared to it's mids and treble.  So looks like both have their advantage and disadvantage.  Pick your poison.  ;)


Edited by GirgleMirt - 3/26/14 at 6:28pm
post #6140 of 8296
Quote:
Originally Posted by GirgleMirt View Post
 

Quote:

 

 

Nope..

 

 

 

Purple is stock and teal is sticker.  Oh you're talking <20hz?  lol  that's really not really a big difference compared to 40-80hz.   Anyway, it depends how you read the graph.  The stock's bass is flatter than the modded from 60 to 600hz.  The modded has much more of a hump shape and it's bass roll off starts at 150hz vs the stock's 70hz.  They both reach 20hz at about -14dB, making the stock FR roll-off steeper.

 

IMHO, the 2-3 dB difference at like 15hz would not be audible or significant, but the 2-3dBs difference from 30 to 80hz might very well make a difference.  A huge part of that is because there's much more 30-80hz content in music than there is at 15hz...   Also the 'problem' is that if you compare say 200hz and 50hz say, modded are -7dB vs the stock's like 3dB...  So the stock's bass 'balance' seems to me better than the modded.  The overall bass balance of the modded seems a bit more in line with the mids and treble though, where the stock's overall bass response is weaker compared to it's mids and treble.

 

The stock Q701 has a sticker.

So the stock curve is Teal.

post #6141 of 8296
Quote:
Originally Posted by GirgleMirt View Post

 

 

 

 

 

Purple is stock and teal is sticker.   WRONG


Please edit your post before people get confused.

post #6142 of 8296
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris J View Post
 

 

The stock Q701 has a sticker.

So the stock curve is Teal.

Haha, FAIL ....   So reverse everything I've said. I've added a warning to my earlier posts, you guys were 100% right, I had it backwards!  My apologies!  :)


Edited by GirgleMirt - 3/26/14 at 6:28pm
post #6143 of 8296
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soundsgoodtome View Post
 


I left the file open for the public, because I only know how to go as far as step response and a regular frequency response chart.
I know how to read a waterfall graph, but making one is totally different for me.

An attempt was made at making one, but the acoustics in testing was no accurate enough to make a decent waterfall to show decay.

I'm just some kid who managed this hobby with a part time job lol

Again, I would like to apologize the treble that throws off the balance, but that wasn't what I intended the graph for anyway... It's just that the zoom h4n is the closest I could get for accurate measurements.


Edited by Nec3 - 3/26/14 at 6:30pm
post #6144 of 8296
Quote:
Originally Posted by GirgleMirt View Post
 

Haha, FAIL ....   So reverse everything I've said.  :tongue_smile:

 

That's OK.

I was questioning my sanity for a while.

post #6145 of 8296

That graph pretty much shows the difference I hear. I prefer the mod with no sticker as it adds more from 30-80hz. 

post #6146 of 8296
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris J View Post
 

 

That's OK.

I was questioning my sanity for a while.


Haha sorry about that.  :p   Yeah so actually, seems like the modded version's FR looks better than the stock.  Very interesting, all the comments with 'more bass' I saw the mid-bass hump (of the stock) and I guess just assumed that there it was; the added bass of the modded...  (which turned out to be the stock's mid bass 'hump'!)  But yeah, definitely better bass extension, and even flatter bass in general as I was saying. I was thinking when in reverse-mode that given that, I wouldn't mod mine.  Now if I want to be consistent, I'll definitely have to mod mine soon!  :D


Edited by GirgleMirt - 3/26/14 at 6:34pm
post #6147 of 8296
Quote:
Originally Posted by GirgleMirt View Post
 


Haha sorry about that.  :p   Yeah so actually, seems like the modded version's FR looks better than the stock.  Very interesting, all the comments with 'more bass' I saw the mid-bass hump (of the stock) and I guess just assumed that there it was; the added bass of the modded...  (which turned out to be the stock's mid bass 'hump'!)  But yeah, definitely better bass extension, and even flatter bass in general as I was saying. I was thinking when in reverse-mode that given that, I wouldn't mod mine.  Now if I want to be consistent, I'll definitely have to mod mine soon!  :D

 

Yes, I agree, the modded (no sticker version) looks better than stock, so based on all this I have to mod mine!

post #6148 of 8296
Quote:
Originally Posted by GirgleMirt View Post
 


Haha sorry about that.  :p   Yeah so actually, seems like the modded version's FR looks better than the stock.  Very interesting, all the comments with 'more bass' I saw the mid-bass hump and I guess just assumed that there it was...  But yeah, definitely better bass extension, and even flatter bass in general as I was saying.  I was thinking when in reverse-mode that given that, I wouldn't mod mine.  Now if I want to be consistent, I'll definitely have to mod mine soon!  :D

This is pretty much what we have all been saying. It's definitely adding bass extension where it counts, which to me makes it a better headphone. I'll take a 1-2 db cut in the upper bass/lower mid range for more extension between 30-80hz. This, and to me the soundstage sound more realistic after the mod. I never noticed less width, but I did notice what sounds like more depth. 

post #6149 of 8296
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nec3 View Post
 


I left the file open for the public, because I only know how to go as far as step response and a regular frequency response chart.
I know how to read a waterfall graph, but making one is totally different for me.

An attempt was made at making one, but the acoustics in testing was no accurate enough to make a decent waterfall to show decay.

I'm just some kid who managed this hobby with a part time job lol

Again, I would like to apologize the treble that throws off the balance, but that wasn't what I intended the graph for anyway... It's just that the zoom h4n is the closest I could get for accurate measurements.



Darn. While the graph looks better on the response, there's a good chance some control of the driver might have been lost. Hence people saying less mids and mid detail. Thanks for graphing it out though.

post #6150 of 8296
Quote:
Originally Posted by GirgleMirt View Post


Haha sorry about that.  tongue.gif   Yeah so actually, seems like the modded version's FR looks better than the stock.  Very interesting, all the comments with 'more bass' I saw the mid-bass hump (of the stock) and I guess just assumed that there it was; the added bass of the modded...  (which turned out to be the stock's mid bass 'hump'!)  But yeah, definitely better bass extension, and even flatter bass in general as I was saying. I was thinking when in reverse-mode that given that, I wouldn't mod mine.  Now if I want to be consistent, I'll definitely have to mod mine soon!  biggrin.gif

Go for it!

Think of it like this - you're not getting more bass, you're getting the right bass.
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