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Q701 impressions thread - Page 249

post #3721 of 9490
Glad you guys like the mod. I wrote Tyll Hertsen about it before I posted it here, and he was interested but has a lot of things going on. I'd love to see some measurements of the mod - to me it's definitely an improvement. Probably not a HD 800-killer, but very very difficult to beat in it's pricerange.

Btw I used Enya Orinoco Flow to test the bass. At around 1:45 into the song there's this part where you can really FEEL the impact. With the mod, that is.
post #3722 of 9490

Just did a little more testing with my go-to track: Hugh Laurie's "St. James Infirmary" from Let Them Talk. All acoustic instruments and lots of them (piano, upright bass, guitar, drums, horns and who knows what else). As it's a recent fav of mine and my wife's, we've heard it on various cans (AKG Q701, K550 and Grado SR225) and a couple sets of speakers (JBLs - S38s with matching center and rears, and just in stereo driven by an old Kenwood VR-6060; cheap Polk Audio floor speakers and center with Energy rears in a much more enclosed room, again both 5 speakers and just the two floors, driven by a Yamaha RX-V467; Direct mode is best), but esp. with the Q701.

 

There's not a doubt in my mind that this mod jacked up the bass, giving it some serious weight, without compromising detail. For example, when the upright bass kicks in around 2m 40s, you feel it. The K550 represents it pretty well (better than the unmodded Q701), but this mod makes it awesome. There's a little guitar accent just before the rest of the band joins in, and I was a little worried it would get buried, overwhelmed, reduced in prominence somehow. Again, A/Bing with the K550, the modded Q701's representation of that guitar is still right there. Now, I'm also sure that pre-mod, that guitar would standout more, as there'd be less bass. But it's still there, as are all the other instruments. One great thing about the Q701 vs. the K550 are the subtleties it unmasks. On the Q701 I can really place Hugh's mouth in relative distance to his mic. When you'd expect emphasis on certain syllables, his vocals are closer/louder. I didn't get that same effect (at least not with the same clarity) with the K550.

 

Time for some more testing (iPod super shuffle of varying genres, though mostly rock, of the classic, prog and indie kind: Rush, Yes, Led Zeppelin, Neil Young (himself a genre machine!) Echo & the Bunnymen, The Flaming Lips, The Bevis Frond, Built To Spill, British Sea Power, ad infinitum). If it passes this, the mod stays for sure.

 

And here's a crazy idea I had whilst dreaming about modded Q701s... rather than putting the old, now less sticky, covers back, how about some plain old transparent (Scotch) tape? What about electrical tape, if it could be made to stick properly? What if I poked a pin hole (literally) in the center of said tape? The original covers are definitely not just plain ol' tape. No tape would have survived my method of removal, yet I was able to bring them back to circles.

 

Well, maybe someday I'll give it a try, if getting the ports covered isn't too much of a PITA.

post #3723 of 9490
Quote:
Originally Posted by papamogl View Post

Glad you guys like the mod. I wrote Tyll Hertsen about it before I posted it here, and he was interested but has a lot of things going on. I'd love to see some measurements of the mod - to me it's definitely an improvement. Probably not a HD 800-killer, but very very difficult to beat in it's pricerange.

Btw I used Enya Orinoco Flow to test the bass. At around 1:45 into the song there's this part where you can really FEEL the impact. With the mod, that is.

 

thanks, i wanted to let him know too!

post #3724 of 9490
tdockweiler,
Glad you're cool smily_headphones1.gif
I actually thought it was so cool to see solid silver become liquid and flow into the cracks when in my metalsmithing class, and of course the video you found was a very tidy job of it. I asked you before and you told me about your Mogami cable (because I wanted a shorter one), I think mow it would be easier to shorten a cable than make one and attach the mini-XLR plug (what are people saying about 2 pins instead of 3? Mine has 3 pins for the plug, I could use the coiled cable with my Q's I think). Of course, looking for a shorter cable is moot now that I have the coiled one, which is working great!

I'm tempted to try the mod on my Q701, though I'd fear the damage to resell value if that's what I end up doing. Funny though, I don't want more bass, I wanted more headband comfort and a more circular (front/rear depth) soundstage. Got the headband sorted now, but still sorting out the sound characteristics.


Papamogl,
Would be cool to see Tyll measure the mod and give listening impressions. I totally understand him being busy tho, I bet it'd only happen if enough people expressed interest to make it worth his time (like the burn-in tests).

ThurstonX,
Is that the actor from House? Lol! Keep the song suggestions coming! Interested in some reggae? Give a listen to Andy Horace's "Angel" and give me some midrange impressions.
Edited by Evshrug - 9/15/13 at 11:00am
post #3725 of 9490
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evshrug View Post

What makes Tinkerbell's pixie dust work? And what are the results? I love the feeling of flight while listening to headphones and forgetting about myself. :akgsmile:

 

As with most sensations of flying/soaring, it's all in your (altered) mind  ;)

post #3726 of 9490
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThurstonX View Post

As with most sensations of flying/soaring, it's all in your (altered) mind  wink.gif
post #3727 of 9490
Thread Starter 

Here's another funny test you can do. You'll think i'm making this stuff up:

 

If you've done the mod try to find a track with lots of mid-bass, slightly bloated. Best with a simple song with vocals yet having bloated mid-bass (yeah really!)

Remove the foam behind your pads and reinstall the pads. They rotate counter clockwise! Angle goes in the back.

Now listen to that song...

 

The mid-bass is magically even more pronounced. More farty sounding.  It sounded really awful. It sounds like one of those headphones with a mid-bass hump. You know how like on the V6 it's mid-bass hump really draws attention to itself? Sort of like that. It's really weird sounding.

 

Something felt off so I compared it to my HD-650 and on that it doesn't stick out as much. You can tell the mid-bass in the song is bloated but not too badly.

 

The difference is stupid easy to hear.

 

When you reinstall the foam it's gone and now comparable to how it sounds on the HD-650.

 

NOTE: This was with the modded Q701 and with no foam behind the OUTER grill.

 

So it makes sense now why K601 foam sounds warmer. It's probably because it's more open than the Q701 form. It's like totally opposite on closed headphones!

 

I bet no foam behind the pads and the small outer grill completely off would have the most (worse) bass.

 

Right now I like the sound with Q701 foam behind the pads and no foam behind the outer grill.

 

I guess it's sort of like regulating the amount of air the driver gets or something.

 

EDIT: No foam behind the pads and no outer grill installed sounds pretty nice with some music, especially vocals. The mids are the fullest i've ever heard them. Probably not so good with very bassy music.


Edited by tdockweiler - 9/15/13 at 11:26am
post #3728 of 9490
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evshrug View Post

 

LOL. Excellent band, excellent choice.

 

My mega shuffle just brought me to "Right On (Hippie Dream)" a fairly tongue-in-cheek 21m neo-psychedelic jam - with spoken word hippie lyrics - by The Bevis Frond.

 

In fact, all the songs so far have been of the indie variety, starting off with a fugazi Peel Session track (very lo-fi, and probably mp3), then The Dukes of Stratosphear, Robyn Hitchcock & the Egyptians (and Andy Metcalf's brilliant fretless bass playing), and now this (the Frond is often Nick Saloman recording in his home studio; so, decidedly indie). None of those recordings have particularly prominent bass, and none suffered from the mod, but rather benefited in a subtle way.

 

I hope some Pixies rolls around in this shuffle. And Poster Children, since we're on post-punk.

post #3729 of 9490
Quote:
Originally Posted by Advil View Post
 

 

thanks, i wanted to let him know too!

 

Then, by all means, do it. Maybe he'll test the mod if more people nudge him about it. Would be great to see a comparable measurement, as I'm sure it'd do well.

 

Btw, to give the right guy the credit he deserves: a german guy called 'outstanding ear' posted the mod over here:

 

http://www.hifi-forum.de/viewthread-211-474.html

 

I just summed up some easy methods to do it and posted it over here.

post #3730 of 9490
Quote:
Originally Posted by papamogl View Post

Glad you guys like the mod. I wrote Tyll Hertsen about it before I posted it here, and he was interested but has a lot of things going on. I'd love to see some measurements of the mod - to me it's definitely an improvement. Probably not a HD 800-killer, but very very difficult to beat in it's pricerange.

Btw I used Enya Orinoco Flow to test the bass. At around 1:45 into the song there's this part where you can really FEEL the impact. With the mod, that is.


Orinoco Flow is an example of slow, one-note sort of bass, with not much nuance or detail. Not a hard one to reproduce for any decent headphone. I would spend more time testing it with some more complex music. Something where for example you have drums and bass guitar together, or really deep male vocal plus bass, etc. See if it lost a lot of speed, tightness or control over the bass. This reminds me of a HD558 mod with removing the foam on the grill. Makes the bass come out and makes it more impactful, which is really addictive at first, but after time you realize the sound is not as neutral, controlled, tight, etc.
post #3731 of 9490

That's something worth considering. Though I have the mod for quite some time now and still enjoy it vastly - and I'm mostly listening to classical music. Until now I didn't detect an overemphasized bass, to me it sounds natural and not exaggerated. But a measurement could clear this up.

Orinoco Flow astonished me because of the improvement in bass IMPACT. Without the mod, the K701 goes all the way down, but it sounds pale. With it, it's much more convincing. I could almost feel it in my chest (and not for it's loudness, but the impact it was missing before).

post #3732 of 9490
Thread Starter 

I did a few more experiments and found that K601 foam is really not good on the modded Q701. Robs you of treble and sounds warmer, but yet the mids are not any thicker at all! Just sounds more congested.

Weird how you get more mid-bass but everything else sounds worse! Soundstage is much worse.

 

Do you want to know what recessed mids sound like on the modded Q701? Try this lower quality song:

 

 

On some headphones the vocals HERE sound just a little distant, but on a REALLY good headphone you can properly judge the spacing and how close or far the singer is away.

It would be easy to confuse this and say the modded Q701 has recessed mids.

 

On the modded Q701 you can easily pinpoint the singer's voice and where it's coming from. Sounds a little further than normally due to soundstage improvements.

On the HD-650 it sounds quite distant too and coming from about the same distance as the Q701, but not quite.

 

If you listen to that song with the K601 foam or stock Q701 it might sound more up-front.

 

Closest match to the HD-650 i've found in bass quantity is stock foam and no foam behind the outer grill. HD-650 has thicker mids perhaps but the modded Q701 has more treble and is more spacious sounding.

I bet if the modded Q701 had the same size of soundstage they might sound very similar.

 

Man I really HATE recordings with distant sounding vocals IN the recording! Why do they do this?!

 

I remember saying a week ago that you could probably still get more bass from the Q701 without robbing it of upper mids and treble. So glad this is possible!! Too good to be true!

 

BTW that's the worst quality track i've heard in awhile. The 320kbps recording sounds nearly the same. Ugh..


Edited by tdockweiler - 9/15/13 at 12:13pm
post #3733 of 9490
Quote:
Originally Posted by papamogl View Post

That's something worth considering. Though I have the mod for quite some time now and still enjoy it vastly - and I'm mostly listening to classical music. Until now I didn't detect an overemphasized bass, to me it sounds natural and not exaggerated. But a measurement could clear this up.
Orinoco Flow astonished me because of the improvement in bass IMPACT. Without the mod, the K701 goes all the way down, but it sounds pale. With it, it's much more convincing. I could almost feel it in my chest (and not for it's loudness, but the impact it was missing before).


There has to be a reason why that port is closed on a stock headphone. I mean, AKG didn't just put it on there for show. They spent probably tens of thousands of hours on testing the headphones during development, so each detail is there for a reason. But open port probably just goes away from the natural and flat bass the stock headphones have.

Btw. - you're all secretly bassheads. Admit it. :P Time to get some Denon AH-D600's. :P
post #3734 of 9490
Quote:
Originally Posted by tdockweiler View Post

Man I really HATE recordings with distant sounding vocals IN the recording! Why do they do this?!


Poor equipment used for recording and mixing, paired with mediocre sound engineers. Some sound engineers are so incompetent and untalented I wouldn't allow them to work on mobile phone ringtones, let alone music. A lot of music is really really poorly recorded. Even some really respected and famous engineers do some really weird things when mixing. They EQ vocals, instruments, etc...and the end mix turns out totally different than it should sound.

Whats wrong with just a raw recording done on good equipment, like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PCne5BZyeU
post #3735 of 9490
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by derbigpr View Post


There has to be a reason why that port is closed on a stock headphone. I mean, AKG didn't just put it on there for show. They spent probably tens of thousands of hours on testing the headphones during development, so each detail is there for a reason. But open port probably just goes away from the natural and flat bass the stock headphones have.

Btw. - you're all secretly bassheads. Admit it. :P Time to get some Denon AH-D600's. :P

 

I'm wondering the same thing as to why it's closed.

 

Definitely not a bass head mod! Now it seems more like neutral bass with a very slight mid-bass emphasis perhaps. No mid-bass bleed or anything and very accurate still.

 

DJ100 and HD-650 have my perfect quantity of bass. Pretty well neutral or close. Very slight mid-bass emphasis. Now they have some competition.

 

I have heard some older 650s with a bigger mid-bass hump though than the one i've got now...

 

Also..opening the port makes even even more flat. Now the lower bass is closer to neutral. I definitely got a little more difference there when I removed the foam too.

 

BTW right now i'm pretty sure my HD-650 and modded Q701 have the same bass quantity. Remember this HD-650 has brand new pads and still doesn't have a large mid-bass hump. Real tiny one perhaps. It has less mid-bass than my old HD-600.

 

EDIT:

 

Bass heads could try the mod with no foam behind the pads and the grill off. IMO that sounded terrible.

 

I would love to see measurements of the mod with minor different changes done. Like with and without the different foams and the grill. I bet you $100 it's measurable!


Edited by tdockweiler - 9/15/13 at 12:39pm
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