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Q701 impressions thread - Page 128

post #1906 of 7696
Quote:
Originally Posted by HamilcarBarca View Post

 

So the M-Stage rolls off the high end while the O2 doesn't. Is this a good thing?

Personal tastes .

post #1907 of 7696

I use Q701 with O2 hooked to a Pioneer DV-58AV SACD / DVD-A player with high rez media and the result is phenomenal. The PCM1796 DAC in the Pioneer really does a fantastic job.

 

In my book, the above mentioned gang bang is top notch.

 

typical Headfi........one man's love is another man's hate........goes on day after day after day..............

post #1908 of 7696
Quote:
Originally Posted by HamilcarBarca View Post

 

So the M-Stage rolls off the high end while the O2 doesn't. Is this a good thing?

 

O2 measures almost perfectly linear, effectively to a fault.  It's not actually a bad thing and for studio work that needs absolute flatness to do the job right, 70x + O2, Phonitor, Auditor, etc would be highly useful.  But for pleasurable listening a really flat headphone (or treble tilted) and a really flat amp, assuming a relatively flat source is rarely seen as enjoyable.  It's kind of surrealistic since a live room would never sound that way.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grado77 View Post

I use Q701 with O2 hooked to a Pioneer DV-58AV SACD / DVD-A player with high rez media and the result is phenomenal. The PCM1796 DAC in the Pioneer really does a fantastic job.

 

In my book, the above mentioned gang bang is top notch.

 

typical Headfi........one man's love is another man's hate........goes on day after day after day..............

 

I suspect that Pioneer is more than a little warm assuming it stick with the normal "Pioneer sound."  Thus you're not listening to the pure-flat O2, but the very warm Pioneer.  Supposedly (though I haven't tried it since I'm not using USB), O2 + ODAC is a good pairing for a lot of cans because ODAC is fairly warm.

 

But take a relatively flat source like a Bifrost, an EMU0404, etc, etc and put O2 on it with some AKGs and prepare to run screaming wink_face.gif

post #1909 of 7696

Yep, just the sweetness of a high rez Pioneer and a transparent amp.....I have a Pioneer BDP-51FD with a really great Wolfson DAC that sounds wonderful too. I usually listen to a whole album at a time, so have no problem with optical media, especially the high rez stuff.
 

PCM1796

 

Analog Performance:

  • Dynamic Range: 123 dB
  • THD+N: 0.0005%

 

The implementation is fantastic too. Clean all the way around, just the way I like it. No sibilance, just crystal clear.


Edited by Grado77 - 10/23/12 at 12:46pm
post #1910 of 7696
Quote:
Originally Posted by HamilcarBarca View Post

So the M-Stage rolls off the high end while the O2 doesn't. Is this a good thing?

You say the Matrix rolls off the treble?
How?
There is nothing in the circuitry to effect this rolloff.
If you can't support this statement with data, then it's just an opinion, not a fact.
Sorry!redface.gif
post #1911 of 7696
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grado77 View Post

Yep, just the sweetness of a high rez Pioneer and a transparent amp.....I have a Pioneer BDP-51FD with a really great Wolfson DAC that sounds wonderful too. I usually listen to a whole album at a time, so have no problem with optical media, especially the high rez stuff.
 

PCM1796

 

Analog Performance:

  • Dynamic Range: 123 dB
  • THD+N: 0.0005%

 

The implementation is fantastic too. Clean all the way around, just the way I like it. No sibilance, just crystal clear.

 

Yeah, the big thing is usually you want some color somewhere in the chain.  Most folks have neutral/transparent sources, and colored amps.  Running out of a CDP like that gives you the, these days, less common situation of a colored source which pairs well with a transparent amp.  Or you can go pro and get transparent source and amp and build complex EQs to build your own coloration biggrin.gif  A lot of headphones/speakers do not do well with that due to crazy, hard to control shelves and spikes in the driver FR and non-linear reactions to boost or trim at different frequencies.  The K/Q 70x, HD800, HE-6 are pretty much the only dynamic headphones I can think of that really lend themselves to EQ.  Plus stats of course, and to a lesser degree HD600/650. 


Edited by IEMCrazy - 10/24/12 at 6:50am
post #1912 of 7696
Quote:
Originally Posted by IEMCrazy View Post

 

O2 measures almost perfectly linear, effectively to a fault.  It's not actually a bad thing and for studio work that needs absolute flatness to do the job right, 70x + O2, Phonitor, Auditor, etc would be highly useful.  But for pleasurable listening a really flat headphone (or treble tilted) and a really flat amp, assuming a relatively flat source is rarely seen as enjoyable.  It's kind of surrealistic since a live room would never sound that way.

 

 

I suspect that Pioneer is more than a little warm assuming it stick with the normal "Pioneer sound."  Thus you're not listening to the pure-flat O2, but the very warm Pioneer.  Supposedly (though I haven't tried it since I'm not using USB), O2 + ODAC is a good pairing for a lot of cans because ODAC is fairly warm.

 

But take a relatively flat source like a Bifrost, an EMU0404, etc, etc and put O2 on it with some AKGs and prepare to run screaming wink_face.gif

Ah....you confirmed my theory why I always found the 702 to be so bright. When I played music live or attended live performances, the highs were naturally diffused by the room....by the distance between the audience and the stage. Even playing in jazz orchestras in high school I never heard highs like I hear with a lot of headphone listening. Perhaps it's not the headphone's fault that they seem so bright.... as I previously assumed... but just the fact that it's right next to your ear. You described my old set up to a tea.....haha....the 0404 and the O2....previously, the even brighter mkV...."run screaming", indeed! The gamma1 seems a bit warmer than the 0404, thankfully.

post #1913 of 7696
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris J View Post

You say the Matrix rolls off the treble?
How?
There is nothing in the circuitry to effect this rolloff.
If you can't support this statement with data, then it's just an opinion, not a fact.
Sorry!redface.gif

 

No, I responded to someone who described the roll-off. If you're interested in how this happens, you can follow up with him for the details and any non-technical suppositions about circuitry.

post #1914 of 7696
Quote:
Originally Posted by lejaz View Post

Ah....you confirmed my theory why I always found the 702 to be so bright. When I played music live or attended live performances, the highs were naturally diffused by the room....by the distance between the audience and the stage. Even playing in jazz orchestras in high school I never heard highs like I hear with a lot of headphone listening. Perhaps it's not the headphone's fault that they seem so bright.... as I previously assumed... but just the fact that it's right next to your ear. You described my old set up to a tea.....haha....the 0404 and the O2....previously, the even brighter mkV...."run screaming", indeed! The gamma1 seems a bit warmer than the 0404, thankfully.

 

Makes sense to me.

In addition, all this music is mixed using loudspeaker, i.e. they expect you to be listening to loudspeakers in a room, not headphones, or at least that is what most people do.   So I think haedphones are a slightly unnatural way to listen to music.  But I still enjoy using my 'phones.

 

Much as I like the Q701s, I feel, personally and subjectively, that they are a rather bright 'phone and when I listen to them, I expect to hear a rather bright sounding 'phone and am less inclined to listen to overly bright recordings.   If the recording sounds too bright, I reach for another set of 'phones, or turn the treble down, or change the music, or turn the volume down, etc.

post #1915 of 7696
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris J View Post

 

Makes sense to me.

In addition, all this music is mixed using loudspeaker, i.e. they expect you to be listening to loudspeakers in a room, not headphones, or at least that is what most people do.   So I think haedphones are a slightly unnatural way to listen to music.  But I still enjoy using my 'phones.

 

Yes - but the Q701 are specifically designed as stereo headphones which is why the driver design should take into account how different frequencies are handled for perceived accuracy and detail.

 

This is where the Q can use a bit more refinement, at least for some genres. Adding more material between the driver and ear can help absorb some of the HF, but at the risk of worsening the SQ and increasing high end distortion and accentuating 'smear' effect common in low quality and highly compressed files. I've since removed the little piece of foam in the back of the cups which allows the driver to breathe. Not only does this give more depth to the low end (to my ears), I think it has favorable effect on the other frequencies. I recycled this piece of foam by covering up the center of the donut-shaped foam under the earpad cups. The idea is to absorb HF before it hits my ear drum.

 

edit: The Q also benefits from bass boost. The added impact gives it ... dare I say .. a more Grado-like presentation. 


Edited by talisman42 - 10/24/12 at 10:56am
post #1916 of 7696

I think a lot of folks can benefit from a DIY M^3 with the Qs.  You could get a Bass Boost installed if you wanted on the M^3.  I myself got a balanced configuration.  I much preferre my M^3 with brighter headphones such as the HD800, Q701, HE-500s This amp is able to smooth out the highs.  Also your able to roll the ops amps if you wish to search for the sound you like the most.

post #1917 of 7696
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris J View Post

 

Makes sense to me.

In addition, all this music is mixed using loudspeaker, i.e. they expect you to be listening to loudspeakers in a room, not headphones, or at least that is what most people do.   So I think haedphones are a slightly unnatural way to listen to music.  But I still enjoy using my 'phones.

 

Much as I like the Q701s, I feel, personally and subjectively, that they are a rather bright 'phone and when I listen to them, I expect to hear a rather bright sounding 'phone and am less inclined to listen to overly bright recordings.   If the recording sounds too bright, I reach for another set of 'phones, or turn the treble down, or change the music, or turn the volume down, etc.

Good point. If the music is mixed and mastered with speakers, the highs will naturally be diffused more than the other frequencies by the room. At least, according to what I read somewhere. I wonder if that would explain the excessive sibilance we hear on a lot of recordings when listening with headphones.....especially bright ones like the 70X. I think a lot of folks have the same issue with the 880... much less so with the hd600, which has highs more like a speaker in a room.

post #1918 of 7696
Quote:
Originally Posted by lejaz View Post

Good point. If the music is mixed and mastered with speakers, the highs will naturally be diffused more than the other frequencies by the room. At least, according to what I read somewhere. I wonder if that would explain the excessive sibilance we hear on a lot of recordings when listening with headphones.....especially bright ones like the 70X. I think a lot of folks have the same issue with the 880... much less so with the hd600, which has highs more like a speaker in a room.

 

Sho' nuff!

You ain't hearing the room!

 

I suspect the excessive sibilance thing is related to the high frequency spike just about every 'phone has in it's treble response. Remember, we are asking one driver to cover the range from 20 to 20kHz.     I need to listen to electrostatic phones more, but I suspect they sound better because they lack the treble resonance. First time I heard a pair of 'stats I thought they sounded bland, then I started to suspect that I was missing the fake treble energy (and distortion!) of a dynamic 'phone.

 

Feel free to disagree, folks.  They are just theories and guesses and the ravings of a lunatic!

 

There must be something wrong with me (LOL)..................DT880 treble doesn't bug me. For me, it is a somewhat mellow/neutral sounding 'phone, but then I almost always use the 880 with a tube amp.

post #1919 of 7696
Thread Starter 

I must be a semi treble head, but treble rarely bothers me.

The only one that drove me nuts is the OLD Grado 325i. I think it was gold. It felt like someone was banging pots and pans next to my ears. Just a painful experience.

Now the DT-880 or 990 never bothered me at all when it came to treble. The OLD K702 did. There was this weird peak that drove my ears nuts. Even with different sources it never went away.

I think this would occur only every 5 minutes, but it was enough for me to exchange my K702 for the DT-880. It's too bad I couldn't get a proper fit with that headphone and it was much too analytical.

Not even my KRKs or Q701 put my music under a microscope THAT much. There was too much variation between song quality, when with the HD-600 or even the Q701 it's not as noticeable.

 

So...obviously when I heard the Q701 I was very happy to not have issues with it's treble. The only time it's treble bothers me is when the recording sounds as if it has the treble/mids cranked to max in the studio. I can listen to these songs on my other headphones and it's still bad.

The only time they sound OK is when I listen to them on a headphone with recessed treble. My 598 and HD-600 kind of smooth over all these crappy recordings. It's kind of fun comparing bad recordings on 5 different headphones k701smile.gif

 

With my ODAC, even these harsh/trebly songs are now more bearable. On my HRT MSII...not so much. I think that thing is less forgiving or..revealing? Not sure..or MAYBE this is because the HRT MSII is less neutral and more "musical"? I have no idea..take your pick.

 

Right now my Q701 sounds perfectly neutral..not even kidding. Sort of like as smooth sounding as an HD-600 with less bass (neutral!) and slightly more treble. I guess you could say maybe like an HD-598 on steroids biggrin.gif

 

My modded HD-600 and Q701 are not that dramatically different..the HD-600 is just a tad warmer/fuller sounding. Of course the HD-600 mods reduce it's bass to more neutral levels. Sounds good though..

 

I still have never gotten my Q701 to ever sound thin. If it is, it's due to the recording. I wonder how many people are instead blaming the headphone when it's just trying to be accurate?

post #1920 of 7696

So... I've thought of buying the ASUS Xonar Essence STX mainly for gaming purposes, for which it's apparentally one of the best. But I've read a lot of bad but also a lot of good about it when it comes to music listening purposes with the Q701. Is it completely horrendous or good for mid-fi? Good for its price?

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