Q701 appreciation thread - Page 109

Using the ODAC and O2 with the Q701 would drive my crazy I think. I've been listening to my Q701 with my Micro Amp and ODAC and I feel like my ears have been bombarded with crappy music overload.

It's really annoying when you go from being wowed with how great a song sounds and then the next 5 have harsh treble, thin mids and really just horrible. Not the Q701's fault, but definitely the recording. Positive.

Maybe I don't want a DAC this revealing for the Q701. Basically the ODAC has like ZERO warmth of it's own at all. Even the perfectly flat Sansa Clip+ and my X-Fi Go Pro has some. The fatigue isn't coming from the treble.

I think it's just due to how revealing the ODAC is. Basically a combination of several things. Sometimes it will be the mids and other times the treble. Maybe just too much detail overload.

The ODAC and my amp seems to suck the life out of most of the music in my collection. I know that means I prefer some coloration, so that's OK. Maybe bad recordings are really more common than I previously imagined.

When I listen to the Q701 and ODAC, it's like I can't really enjoy any of it. Ok, at least a large part of it.

Now it's too bad there were not more recordings that sounded warm and amazing sounding. I can hear these bad songs on the HD-580 and they're nearly as bad. Obviously the HD-580 does make them easier on the ears due to being a quite warm headphone with thicker mids.

I just connected the ODAC up to my E9. It's most definitely less revealing of the crap files i've been listening to (FLAC). It's as if the E9 smooths over some recordings slightly and they're not quite as bad, but close.

I actually never realized this at first, but I think the E9 is actually warmer than my Micro Amp. I thought it was the opposite actually! Guess it was due to the HRT MSII. The mids are VERY slightly fuller (but not like the E10). The e9 seems to have the same amount of treble as my Micro. I think the E9 might be a tad more bassy. Obviously the differences in the signatures of amps are very small.

Want to know something weird? With my Q701 and Micro Amp it has a smaller soundstage than the E9 when using the HRT MSII. When using the ODAC with both amps, it's about the same. I can't explain this one. Any ideas? The soundstage of my Micro with the Q701 varies a ton based on what's connected to it. The HRT MSII to my Micro with the HD-580 has a tiny soundstage. With the Q701 it's quite large still.

I think the crossfeed on my amp will help the sound a bit (some think it adds some warmth?!). I find Canare Starquad cables are slightly warm (due to really high capacitance), so that might help. I have a Q701 Canare cable I made that i'll try. Any tiny bit of extra warmth might help. The Q701 itself doesn't really need any extra wamrth on 95% of what i've tried it on.

TLDR: I find the ODAC + my amp + Q701 to not be that musical (just the setup, not each part in general). Meaning it's so excessively revealing that it's harder to just enjoy what you're listening to. Right now the impressive songs that actually are well mastered and sound good are coming along so rarely. Right now i'm listening to a song and it sounds like it's sounds like it's being played inside a cave (not due to the Q701's soundstage silly). Not even joking. Next I have a new cantopop song and it sounds like the person is singing right into my ears. Pretty crystal clear though and sounds fine overall. The whole song is fairly smooth sounding.

I bet the DT-880 with this setup would be even worse. I imagine the best headphone for this setup would be the HD-650. If you prefer a musical sounding DAC (nothing wrong with that!) i'd avoid the ODAC. Ok, now my ears are hurting.

Oh yeah... one more weird thing.. I'm listening to Parting Ways from Pearl Jam (Binaural album). It sounds really very warm and full. Like I have my bass EQed on my Q701. Almost like how I'd imagine it to sound on the HD-650. But yet it's coming from my dang ODAC and Q701. Yet the next song sounds as if it's coming from an AD700. Can you say annoying?

NOTE: This Canare DIY Q701 "snake oil" really seems to add a tiny bit of extra warmth to the Q701 for all those really awful songs. Now I just need a new interconnect cable. I'm using a $2,000 Monoprice cable. One of the first times I could actually stand Canare.

If I was smart I'd just not just the Q701 with the ODAC! I guess all this hassle has been sort of a learning experience.

Slight update..that Canare cable really helps the Q701 a bit (with ODAC). It now sounds closer to how it does with the HRT MSII. Meaning just slightly easier on the ears. I don't know what the reason is for the extra warmth (not much). Your guess is as good as mine. I'm guessing it's due to the higher capacitance of the Canare.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lejaz 

I think your posts have me convinced that it's not the best DAC to use with the k702! In theory adding more detail would be a good thing, but if the source files or the recordings are flawed I can see how having more detail retrieval could pose a problem. Unfortunately a lot of my collection is 256kbs or 320k mp3's. But I still think the ODAC might be worth trying with the dt48, since they have great detail retrieval but have no big peaks in the upper mids or treble to make bad recordings sound worse. BTW, if you have a ODAC you want to part with shoot me a PM. 

Oh..the K702 would probably be even worse. The Canare idea is working out well, but my ears have only lasted around 4 hours today.

I think for me it's not an issue of bitrate (unless it's like under 192 etc), but more due how bad the recordings are when made in the studio. I can just imagine them being made with a Monster Beats headphone as their reference.

I hate to say it, but the ODAC honestly doesn't make me like the Q701 just for music listening. On 95% of all the other "normal" gear it's perfect for me. Sounds very musical and fun with the HRT MSII, E10, Clip+ as source to amp and even my CD players.

Gasp..maybe the ODAC really DOES have slightly edgy treble. I'm not going to argue with measurements. The e7 measures perfectly flat I guess and it sounded bad to me. All these perfectly neutral sources always sound slightly different to my ears.

I have 14 days return policy on the ODAC and I'd feel guilty if I returned it. I actually sold my HRT MSII to fund the purchase. Doh! Go me... sure, it's "technically" better. Don't care...

What i'd love in a DAC is for it to be like the ODAC, but a tad less revealing, have slightly warmer and fuller mids and smoother treble. Maybe my dumb ears and poor recordings just prefer something like the E17 or HRT MSII. The only time the MSII bothered me is when recordings sounded like the mids were cranked up to max. Nothing else ever...well maybe a few bad tracks that have excessive amounts of treble.

I'm going to be listening to the E10 for the next 2 days. Need a vacation from the ODAC. Hopefully the E17 is similar to the E10, but has less forward mids and more extended treble.

Oh yeah..the ODAC seems to make the treble of my Q701 sound more like that of the DT-880. Must be hearing things...

Quote:

Originally Posted by NimbleTurtle 

Meh. I've seen some people satisfied with the Q701 + ODAC. I think the whole idea of poor recordings is blown out of proportions. Sure there are plenty of poor recordings out there but not to the point where they sound awful. The ODAC by design is supposed to be dead transparent, which points the blame on the recordings or the cans used. In this case, I'd blame the cans. If I had a Q701, I'd EQ down the treble at specific regions, so you can hear the bass and midrange better. 

Have you tried the ODAC with the Q701 and a really transparent/revealing amp? Without hearing it for yourself, your comments don't really help anyone. If you mainly use only the HD-598, that's probably why you think this. Not trying to be a jerk.

The HD-598 makes nearly everything sound great. Bad recordings included. OK, not ALL of them, but it's quite forgiving (less so than the HD-650). It makes everything sound smoother than it really is. That's one reason I love it. The Q701 + ODAC would be nicer if you had a dark and warm amp to go with it. The Q701 without the ODAC doesn't need it.

Have you heard the DT-880? That also will really show you how bad so many recordings are. No ODAC and fancy pants amp required. An HD-598 on the other hand will make almost everything sound good.

100% NOT the headphones fault. Definitely the recording. You can hear it in a similar way on another headphone that's very revealing. My HD-580 will show me the song is bad, but it only sounds better on my ears due to having way less treble and more mid-bass. I don't find the HD-580 all that revealing. Somewhat, but not overkill. Good recordings on the Q701 are perfect. Well made albums with lots of treble are no problem with my ears at all ever on the Q701.

FYI i've never ever heard a setup this revealing. I mean, my stuff is considered budget gear too mostly. The Q701 is slightly warm by itself, so I don't even want to imagine the DT-880 would sound like with the ODAC. Probably would give me nightmares. I remember it having very cold/thin mids. Like more so than on any other headphone.

BTW I just switched from my Q701 to DJ100. Songs still sound bad, but it's definitely MUCH warmer (probably more than even the recording is). It seems that on very warm headphones, the flaws don't seem to stick out as much. I guess that's a plus for me! Not that the DJ100 is very warm. A little less than the HD-580.

I do like the ODAC a LOT. Sounds amazing with the HD-580 and my other headphones, but not so much with the Q701. Maybe if my amp was warmer/darker. I think it just comes down to preference.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mad Lust Envy 

I an understand Tdock. Sure, lots of people aim for pure reference, but there is a reason why so man companies use a little warmth in their DACs and amps (hello Tube amps). If you're going to analyze music, instead of enjoy it, then go ahead and get dry, analytical headphone with the O2 and ODAC.
We all have preferences, and a lot of us like some musicality in our equipment. If Tdock doesn't like the ODAC, its fine. Its like me preferring the DT990/32 over the 600ohm. The 600ohm is more revealing, while the 32ohm is more musical and less harsh to recordings.

What's funny is that people said the ODAC/O2 were dry and analytical and I kind of ignored that. I'd be raving about it maybe if I had the HD-650 or like say the HD-600. People with darker headphones would love it i'd imagine.

I don't know why I would have thought the ODAC was a good idea with the Q701. I've never had a DAC be too revealing. Figured that was impossible. It doesn't help that up until a few weeks ago I thought my amp was fairly warm. Definitely don't think that's the case now thanks to the ODAC.

BTW this thing even seems to be improving my DJ100 quite a bit. Lots more detail, but it's perfectly smooth so far and bad stuff doesn't sound nearly as bad. Seems like there's a little more bass than I remember, but it's probably because my ears have been so used to the Q701!