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Amp recommendations for Audeze LCD-3 - Page 59

post #871 of 947
Quote:
Originally Posted by Solude View Post
 

 

Take M1, add relay for pre-out/headphone, add jacks in the front... M8.  Also a bias switch but otherwise same circuit.

 

yep, turns the ACSS into about 5 watts in high power mode.

post #872 of 947

The Master-7 & 8 worked great with my LCD-2 IMO. The only annoying part was the clicking sound it produced everytime I adjusted the volume, not a deal breaker, just a bit distracting. My current pre-amp has no such issue. I preferred the HE-6 on my Mini-Torii over the Master-8 by quite a bit, despite the Master-8's power rating being higher than the Mini Torii. The HE-6 on the Mini Torii sounded more dynamic, engaging and 3-D. I thought the worst performer was HD800 on Master-8, definitely not the sound I am looking for. 

post #873 of 947
Quote:
Originally Posted by froger View Post
 

The Master-7 & 8 worked great with my LCD-2 IMO. The only annoying part was the clicking sound it produced everytime I adjusted the volume, not a deal breaker, just a bit distracting. My current pre-amp has no such issue. I preferred the HE-6 on my Mini-Torii over the Master-8 by quite a bit, despite the Master-8's power rating being higher than the Mini Torii. The HE-6 on the Mini Torii sounded more dynamic, engaging and 3-D. I thought the worst performer was HD800 on Master-8, definitely not the sound I am looking for.

 

 

Here here.

 

Did you only listen to the M8/HD800 with the M7 in the chain? That's the only way I did, ACSS too, and it was beyond bland and lifeless. I wonder though, how much of that has to do with the somewhat distant, 5th row, 2D soundstage that the M7 exhibits. That's not the best presentation with the Senns in my book. I wish I still had a M8 in house to try with my Eximus though, and see how that combo works with the Senn. In fact-I might just get an M8 again for that very purpose, and save $1500 by not getting the GSX in the process...my Luxman is putting these thoughts on the back burner for now though. ;)

 

-Daniel

post #874 of 947
Quote:
Originally Posted by froger View Post
 

The Master-7 & 8 worked great with my LCD-2 IMO. The only annoying part was the clicking sound it produced everytime I adjusted the volume, not a deal breaker, just a bit distracting. My current pre-amp has no such issue. I preferred the HE-6 on my Mini-Torii over the Master-8 by quite a bit, despite the Master-8's power rating being higher than the Mini Torii. The HE-6 on the Mini Torii sounded more dynamic, engaging and 3-D. I thought the worst performer was HD800 on Master-8, definitely not the sound I am looking for. 

 

Curious as to what the problems were with your Master-8 & HD800's?

Because I am loving my HD800's with my Master-6, which basically should be the same amp.

 

Like BournePerfect asked was the Master-7 your source.

 

You & BournePerfect are making me so happy I choose the Sabre32 DAC rather than the hyped PDM1704 DAC's


Edited by nigeljames - 9/18/13 at 1:39am
post #875 of 947
Quote:
Originally Posted by Solude View Post
 

I believe it's good because the gent who designed the Dynalo(GS-1/GS-X) believes it's as good.  He also happened to replace his Krell with one so I'm inclined to believe him ;)  At 17x17x4 though it's a monster.  GS-X mk2 is 14x9x5 stacked.

Just did the math. That is huge! And it looks that you can't put something on top of it due to the vents...

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Roberts View Post
 

 

 

The Bakoon HPA-21, which was designed using the LCD-3 retails for $2995.00. The amp is battery powered and employs the Japanese designed SATRI circuit which has been constantly refined for over 20 years now. It is a current driven amp along the lines of a First Watt F-1 but includes a traditional voltage headphone output as well. Headphone transducers lend themselves perfectly to current driven amps.

 

This amp gets little love on HF (perhaps since very few have even listened to one) but Kevin Gilmore himself has given very high praise in print on HF to Bakoon amps. Realistically, the GS-X or the HPA-21 would both be SS end-game solutions.

 

Don't know where you are located but it is not difficult to have an HPA-21 sent to you in the U.S. on a trial basis.

I listened to the Bakoon HPA-21 and wasn't that impressed

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kevin gilmore View Post

 

although I have not heard it, knowing the design concepts of the master8 I expect it to sound outstanding

regardless of price.

Based on the design, do you think it is comparable to GS-X?

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saraguie View Post


The problem with the Bakoon as I see it is it has to run off of battery. And the battery will not charge when plugged in and in use.

+1 That is a huge design flaw

post #876 of 947
Quote:
Originally Posted by nigeljames View Post

Curious as to what the problems were with your Master-8 & HD800's?
Because I am loving my HD800's with my Master-6, which basically should be the same amp.

Like BournePerfect asked was the Master-7 your source.

You & BournePerfect are making me so happy I choose the Sabre32 DAC rather than the hyped PDM1704 DAC's
Yes, I only listened with M7 in the M8, HD800 chain. Hd800 doesn't work with Mini Torii amp, so I could only compare the HE-6. A couple of issues I had were first, the music sounded very artificial, I think could be the tonality, my brain straight away would remind me that I was listening to headphone-produced music instead of having the impression that I was listening to a real presentation live. In other words, it was just not natural and organic sounding enough to make the music believable. Second, I thought the body was missing, in general, the presentation sounded flat and pretty 2-D. Overall, I thought although the music was smooth and sounded grand due to a wide soundstage, it wasn't convincing and engaging to me. There said, there seemed many who enjoyed the combi, except BournePerfect and me, so it could be just us hearing things differently.
Edited by froger - 9/18/13 at 4:10am
post #877 of 947
Quote:
Originally Posted by Solude View Post
 

I believe it's good because the gent who designed the Dynalo(GS-1/GS-X) believes it's as good.  He also happened to replace his Krell with one so I'm inclined to believe him ;)  At 17x17x4 though it's a monster.  GS-X mk2 is 14x9x5 stacked.

 

wow.. did not release that. That is near  standard rack mount....

Idea's..
post #878 of 947
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevin gilmore View Post
 

 

I have not heard the bakoon amp either.

 

 

 

 

Kevin, I really don't want to take the time to find the posting but in it you responded to a person's post regarding the SATRI circuit. You stated you knew where to locate the schematics but weren't about to post them on HF. Then you went on to describe the circuit which was a bunch of fairly technical info that has no interest or meaning to me. You named four companies that use the circuit or some variation thereof. The first company you mentioned was Bakoon. You also mentioned Audio-GD, Krell and another company I'm not familiar with. You also stated this circuit contained a lot of parts, had low distortion and was very fast. You mentioned something about TIM, an apparent abbreviation that I'm not familiar with. How can you state the qualities regarding these amps without hearing a Bakoon which was actually the first company you listed in your posting?  Perhaps I misunderstood, and you were referring to the circuit itself, but it came across as high praise (coming from you) for the companies you listed that actually design amps using the circuit.

 

It was a natural assumption to infer that you had actually listened to an amp from the companies you mentioned.

post #879 of 947
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saraguie View Post


The problem with the Bakoon as I see it is it has to run off of battery. And the battery will not charge when plugged in and in use.

 

 

Do you listen for 8 straight hours on a regular basis? The plus is, the batteries provide clean power. Do you have any idea how "dirty" the electricity is coming from your wall socket. It adds distortion. Why do you think PS Audio Power Plants are so popular with audiophiles?

post #880 of 947
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Roberts View Post
 

 

 

Kevin, I really don't want to take the time to find the posting but in it you responded to a person's post regarding the SATRI circuit. You stated you knew where to locate the schematics but weren't about to post them on HF. Then you went on to describe the circuit which was a bunch of fairly technical info that has no interest or meaning to me. You named four companies that use the circuit or some variation thereof. The first company you mentioned was Bakoon. You also mentioned Audio-GD, Krell and another company I'm not familiar with. You also stated this circuit contained a lot of parts, had low distortion and was very fast. You mentioned something about TIM, an apparent abbreviation that I'm not familiar with. How can you state the qualities regarding these amps without hearing a Bakoon which was actually the first company you listed in your posting?  Perhaps I misunderstood, and you were referring to the circuit itself, but it came across as high praise (coming from you) for the companies you listed that actually design amps using the circuit.

 

It was a natural assumption to infer that you had actually listened to an amp from the companies you mentioned.

I would stop worrying so much whether Kevin likes your amp or not and be satisfied that you do.  As for how he knows how it sounds without hearing it, well the best engineers can do this.  Kevin is at a point where he can look at a waveform and tell you whether the music it represents is good or not.

 

TIM is transient intermodulation distortion.  A short definition:

 

Transient intermodulation distortion, or TIM, occurs in amplifiers that employ negative feedback when signal delays make the amplifier incapable of correcting distortion when exposed to fast, transient signals.

post #881 of 947
Quote:
Originally Posted by Radio_head View Post
 

I would stop worrying so much whether Kevin likes your amp or not and be satisfied that you do.  As for how he knows how it sounds without hearing it, well the best engineers can do this.  Kevin is at a point where he can look at a waveform and tell you whether the music it represents is good or not.

 

 

 

 

Life is way too short to worry about what anybody posts on HF! It seemed appropriate to clear the record since my credibility was affected by Kevin's post.

 

Thanks for explaining the abbreviation.

post #882 of 947
Quote:
Originally Posted by nigeljames View Post
 

 

Curious as to what the problems were with your Master-8 & HD800's?

Because I am loving my HD800's with my Master-6, which basically should be the same amp.

 

Like BournePerfect asked was the Master-7 your source.

 

You & BournePerfect are making me so happy I choose the Sabre32 DAC rather than the hyped PDM1704 DAC's

 

Unfortunately I was only able to hear the M7/M8/HD800 and with no other components when I owned that rig. I really don't think the M8 was the problem in retrospect-it was extremely transparent without being shrill. OTOH, the distant 2D soundstage of the M7, paired with the spacious HD800 was simply a bad combination imo-an upfront or forward amp would be neeeded imo in that rig. Pretty hard to be musically engaging when everything is so flat and distant imo. I do wanna try the M8 again with the Eximus-something tells me that will have practically the opposite effect. :)

Quote:
Originally Posted by froger View Post


Yes, I only listened with M7 in the M8, HD800 chain. Hd800 doesn't work with Mini Torii amp, so I could only compare the HE-6. A couple of issues I had were first, the music sounded very artificial, I think could be the tonality, my brain straight away would remind me that I was listening to headphone-produced music instead of having the impression that I was listening to a real presentation live. In other words, it was just not natural and organic sounding enough to make the music believable. Second, I thought the body was missing, in general, the presentation sounded flat and pretty 2-D. Overall, I thought although the music was smooth and sounded grand due to a wide soundstage, it wasn't convincing and engaging to me. There said, there seemed many who enjoyed the combi, except BournePerfect and me, so it could be just us hearing things differently.

 

I agree with everything you say. OTOH, I don't think anyone here has actually had the same M7/M8/HD800 rig. Seems most people questioning what we heard (lol) are people who were either using a different dac or amp...?

 

-Daniel


Edited by BournePerfect - 9/18/13 at 8:50am
post #883 of 947
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Roberts View Post
 

 

 

Do you listen for 8 straight hours on a regular basis? The plus is, the batteries provide clean power. Do you have any idea how "dirty" the electricity is coming from your wall socket. It adds distortion. Why do you think PS Audio Power Plants are so popular with audiophiles?

Not ever so far. BUT, what if I forget to plug in to charge and the next session there is not enough juice? What if I forget to unplug and leave it plugged in for a week or more? I assume like a laptop the battery should not be left charging without use for long periods of time.

 

I have clean power out of my wall and my PWD and MJ combo gives off no detectable (at lest to me) hum.

 

For 3 grand it should be able to run with or without a battery. Similar to what RWA does. And BTW I had a RWA Bellina for 30 days and could not tell the difference with battery power or wall power.

post #884 of 947
The Japan models are AC powered only the Korean stylised models are battery.
post #885 of 947
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary in MD View Post
I don't know of anybody else who has tried the Odyssey yet, though I hope somebody else does, so that they can either love it and confirm my opinion, or hate it and confirm for most of you that I'm deaf.  :wink_face:

 

Should have one in a few weeks. Will let you know how it goes.

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