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Can the burn-in skeptics leave us alone? - Page 13

post #181 of 184

Firstly, cable believers describing skeptics as flat-earthers is possibly the most ironic thing I have heard all week. Especially when you consider a basic tenet of the real Flat Earth argument is that the Earth must be flat, because you can clearly see it is.

Secondly, that rambling pile of crap from Cardas is...a rambling pile of crap. Tell you what: I shall break it down below, with annotations, unless anyone thinks it makes sense.

 

 

Cable Break-In
by George Cardas

There are many factors that make cable break-in necessary and many reasons why the results vary. If you measure a new cable with a voltmeter you will see a standing voltage because good dielectrics make poor conductors. They hold a charge much like a rubbed cat’s fur on a dry day. It takes a while for this charge to equalize in the cable. Better cables often take longer to break-in. The best "air dielectric" techniques, such as Teflon tube construction, have large non-conductive surfaces to hold charge, much like the cat on a dry day.

Paragraph 1: Begins with an unsubstantiated statement, attempts to explain it by implication with standing voltages. Not even a suggestion as to how standing voltages affect sound quality, but I'll give him time.

Cables that do not have time to settle, such as musical instrument and microphone cables, often use conductive dielectrics like rubber or carbonized cotton to get around the problem. This dramatically reduces microphonics and settling time, but the other dielectric characteristics of these insulators are poor and they do not qualify sonically for high-end cables. Developing non-destructive techniques for reducing and equalizing the charge in excellent dielectric is a challenge in high end cables.

Paragraph 2: Resorts to making stuff up. Google "Microphone Cable Settling." There is one result discussing this...this article. Still hasn't told me how this charge is going to corrupt my audio.

The high input impedance necessary in audio equipment makes uneven dielectric charge a factor. One reason settling time takes so long is we are linking the charge with mechanical stress/strain relationships. The physical make up of a cable is changed slightly by the charge and visa versa. It is like electrically charging the cat. The physical make up of the cat is changed by the charge. It is "frizzed" and the charge makes it's hair stand on end. "Teflon Cats", cables and their dielectric, take longer to loose this charge and reach physical homeostasis.

Paragraph 3: Goes on about details of effect to make it seem more plausible. Still has not linked it to audio.

The better the dielectric's insulation, the longer it takes to settle. A charge can come from simply moving the cable (Piezoelectric effect and simple friction), high voltage testing during manufacture, etc. Cable that has a standing charge is measurably more microphonic and an uneven distribution of the charge causes something akin to structural return loss in a rising impedance system. When I took steps to eliminate these problems, break-in time was reduced and the cable sounded generally better. I know Bill Low at Audioquest has also taken steps to minimize this problem.

Paragraph 4: Realises that he needs to start linking his beloved standing voltages to something that seems like it could be audible and sounds important. He then goes for what I like to call the "Throw As Much of Transmission Line Theory At The Reader As Possible To Sound Legitimate" approach. I'm surprised he didn't mention skin effect. Unsurprisingly, most of this stuff isn't really applicable at audio frequencies, which doesn't stop him subjectively declaring that cables sound better when it is "addressed."


Mechanical stress is the root of a lot of the break-in phenomenon and it is not just a factor with cables. As a rule, companies set up audition rooms at high end audio shows a couple of days ahead of time to let them break in. The first day the sound is usually bad and it is very stressful. The last day sounds great. Mechanical stress in speaker cables, speaker cabinets, even the walls of the room, must be relaxed in order for the system to sound its best. This is the same phenomenon we experience in musical instruments. They sound much better after they have been played. Many musicians leave their instruments in front of a stereo that is playing to get them to warm up. This is very effective with a new guitar. Pianos are a stress and strain nightmare. Any change, even in temperature or humidity, will degrade their sound. A precisely tuned stereo system is similar.

Paragraph 5: Wall stress? This falls incredibly firmly in the category of "Making Things Up." Piano=/Cable.

You never really get all the way there, you sort of keep halving the distance to zero. Some charge is always retained. It is generally in the MV range in a well settled cable. Triboelectric noise in a cable is a function of stress and retained charge, which a good cable will release with both time and use. How much time and use is dependent on the design of the cable, materials used, treatment of the conductors during manufacture, etc.

There are many small tricks and ways of dealing with the problem. Years ago, I began using Teflon tube "air dielectric" construction and the charge on the surface of the tubes became a real issue. I developed a fluid that adds a very slight conductivity to the surface of the dielectric. Treated cables actually have a better measured dissipation factor and the sound of the cables improved substantially. It had been observed in mid eighties that many cables could be improved by wiping them with a anti-static cloth. Getting something to stick to Teflon was the real challenge. We now use an anti-static fluid in all our cables and anti-static additives in the final jacketing material. This attention to charge has reduced break-in time and in general made the cable sound substantially better. This is due to the reduction of overall charge in the cable and the equalization of the distributed charge on the surface of conductor jacket.

It seems there are many infinitesimal factors that add up. Overtime you find one leads down a path to another. In short, if a dielectric surface in a cable has a high or uneven charge which dissipates with time or use, triboelectric and other noise in the cable will also reduce with time and use. This is the essence of break-in

A note of caution. Moving a cable will, to some degree, traumatize it. The amount of disturbance is relative to the materials used, the cable's design and the amount of disturbance. Keeping a very low level signal in the cable at all times helps. At a show, where time is short, you never turn the system off. I also believe the use of degaussing sweeps, such as on the Cardas Frequency Sweep and Burn-In Record (side 1, cut 2a) helps.

A small amount of energy is retained in the stored mechanical stress of the cable. As the cable relaxes, a certain amount of the charge is released, like in an electroscope. This is the electromechanical connection.

Many factors relating to a cable's break-in are found in the sonic character or signature of a cable. If we look closely at dielectrics we find a similar situation. The dielectric actually changes slightly as it charges and its dissipation factor is linked to its hardness. In part these changes are evidenced in the standing charge of the cable. A new cable, out of the bag, will have a standing charge when uncoiled. It can have as much as several hundred millivolts. If the cable is left at rest it will soon drop to under one hundred, but it will takes days of use in the system to fall to the teens and it never quite reaches zero. These standing charges appear particularly significant in low level interconnects to preamps with high impedance inputs.

The interaction of mechanical and electrical stress/strain variables in a cable are integral with the break-in, as well as the resonance of the cable. Many of the variables are lumped into a general category called triboelectric noise. Noise is generated in a cable as a function of the variations between the components of the cable. If a cable is flexed, moved, charged, or changed in any way, it will be a while before it is relaxed again. The symmetry of the cable's construction is a big factor here. Very careful design and execution by the manufacturer helps a lot. Very straight forward designs can be greatly improved with the careful choice of materials and symmetrical construction. Audioquest has built a large and successful high-end cable company around these principals.

The basic rules for the interaction of mechanical and electrical stress/strain variables holds true, regardless of scale or medium. Cables, cats, pianos and rooms all need to relax in order to be at their best. Constant attention to physical and environmental conditions, frequent use and the degaussing of a system help it achieve and maintain a relaxed state.

A note on breaking in box speakers, a process which seems to take forever. When I want to speed up the break-in process, I place the speakers face to face, with one speaker wired out of phase and play a surf CD through them. After about a week, I place them in their normal listening position and continue the process for three more days. After that, I play a degaussing sweep a few times. Then it is just a matter of playing music and giving them time

Other Paragraphs: Keeps on going as before. Throws scientific-sounding vocabulary at you, referring to effects that his cables supposedly minimise, never once really demonstrating why they should be audible. Lots of unsubstantiated crap is dropped in at random throughout.


Edited by Willakan - 12/20/11 at 10:21am
post #182 of 184
Quote:
Originally Posted by LizardKing1 View Post

I have absolutely no dog in this fight, but that was not hand-waving. I think it's unfair that just because something does not correspond to what you believe reality to be, it's immediately not objective enough. If Cardas was saying that whatever fluid he uses on cables makes "the treble sparkle more and the bass extend deeper", sure it's poetry, but he substantiated it with a scientific possibility, a theory. I do not know enough to have a defined opinion, I know arguments on both sides - and I hate using that word, "opinion", as if science could be about what you want to believe in. It's always much easier for me to understand why something makes no sense than why it does (ex.: audiophile USB cable). But it's unfair to say that text was lyrical when it was anything but.


I can't believe I'm going to do this frown.gif

 

I'll just do the first paragraph.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ianmedium View Post

Cable Break-In
by George Cardas
There are many factors that make cable break-in necessary and many reasons why the results vary. If you measure a new cable with a voltmeter you will see a standing voltage because good dielectrics make poor conductors. They hold a charge much like a rubbed cat’s fur on a dry day. It takes a while for this charge to equalize in the cable (show us some proof of this. Not everyone who reads this is going to be versed in the physics, and not substantiating the claims is just creating an appeal to authority on the subject). Better (better how?) cables often take longer to break-in (how long does it take?). The best (best how?) "air dielectric" techniques, such as Teflon tube construction, have large non-conductive surfaces to hold charge, much like the cat on a dry day.
Cables that do not have time to settle, such as musical instrument and microphone cables, often use conductive dielectrics like rubber or carbonized cotton to get around the problem. This dramatically reduces microphonics and settling time, but the other dielectric characteristics of these insulators are poor and they do not qualify sonically for high-end cables (so if they don't qualify sonically, surely the difference can be heard in a blind test, right? Right?). Developing non-destructive (destructive how?) techniques for reducing and equalizing the charge in excellent (excellent how?) dielectric is a challenge in high end cables.

 

He makes claims, he doesn't back them up. Any mention of the effects the demonstrable physics has, he glosses over with vague descriptors like "best" or "longer", with no indication of how, what, or how much. Are we supposed to take his word for it? It's not waxing poetic about the sounds of cables, but that doesn't mean it's any more useful to describe what happens with burn-in.


In general, the use of this article in this discussion feels like a red herring. It seems to be talking about settling time, like for microphone cables, where a cable has to be left still to sound its "best". This is not burn-in, in the same sense headphones burn in. Audio cables are fairly stationary, and the cable will stop "breaking in" once it settles, a time frame he never really defines.

post #183 of 184

Well... Does this mean that older houses will have smoother gentler lighting due to electrical burn in?  When in doubt I just try to apply these audiophile examples to other objects we use daily.  I find the idea of cable burn in extremely sketchy... at best.  Also, I fail to see how a statically charged cat has anything to do with cables and burn in.  If anything shouldn't cable makers focus more on isolating their cables from external interference, and make claims of metal "burning in?"

post #184 of 184

The cat has a static electrical charge. I don't know if that also happens with cables and, more importantly, if that would affect audio in any way.

 

As for the house, the light wouldn't be different, if there would be any difference, it would be in how bright the bulb would get, not in light colors or shading. And even then I think it's borderline on science fiction.

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