About to go from Audio Technica M50 to Sennheiser HD650 - will I miss the bass?

If it were me I would go from the M50 to a Denon AH-D2000.  You will save a few bucks and have another awesome can.  The HD-650 is one of the those headphones that has a "veil" that keeps the sound at a severe distance from your ear.  It sounds as if the audio is playing through a thick pillow before it reaches your ears.  This is caused by several things.  The first of which is the foam inside each ear cup.  The second is the frequency dependant impedance curve, and the last is the geometry.

If you prefer an open can with a tad more bass I use the Beyerdynamic DT990 ( 250 Ohm ).  For you I would recommend the DT990 ( 32 Ohm ).  They are a little bit easier to drive because there is very little frequency dependence in the impedance curve.

The HD-650 will not punch nearly as hard as the M50.  See the charts below:

http://graphs.headphone.com/graphCompare.php?graphType=0&graphID[]=853&graphID[]=1473

The M50 has an almost +7dB gain at the 90Hz range which is where your ear starts to really feel the bass.

I can't talk too much about those two headphones, but I think rumble and punch are two different things.

If I were to use a well-known track to assess rumble, I'd go for Girl I Love You from Massive Attack. To me, the bass line is a typical example of a critical test for "rumble", which to me is the association of good texture in the bass frequencies and the ability to exerce some "air pressure" over your eardrum for a long period of time, while remaining rather clean.

If I were to use a track to assess punch, I'd rather pick Zwara from Juno Reactor, and especially the percussion heavy bridge in the middle. To me "punch" rather equates to speed + pressure, but not necessarily texture.

So a pair of headphones that might satisfy you in one area may be lacking in another one.

I've listened to the M50 a few times only, and I own the HD 650 since yesterday, so my comment isn't all that accurate. Nonetheless, I think they're two very different animals. Although the first thing you'll likely to noticed going from the M50 to the HD650 isn't the bass, but the way upper midrange frequencies are presented. Also, the HD 650 doesn't punch only through the bass, but through the midrange as well - it's got a very palpable, tactile sound signature, which I don't remember the M50 or any other headphone I've tried for that matter having to such an extent.

Heya,

Having both, you'll notice the HD650 does bass very nicely, but it doesn't hit like a closed headphone does, so impact will go down, it won't shake your head and thump your drum. The bass extension will go deep, but it too will sound like it rolls off a little compared to what you're used to. The HD650 is very smooth and laid back in all ways both in the treble and even the bass. It's not a visceral headphone at all. I personally didn't like the HD650 because of this, I felt like it was a boring headphone, it wasn't exciting, the treble was too subdued and the bass wasn't nearly what people yammered on about (considering I have the HD580 too, the bass was not a big step at all even though people seem to like to say the HD650 is bassy by comparison). The HD650 is a great headphone mind you. If you want something smooth, reference, that you can listen to all day without fatigue, it will do it. Because of it's dark laid back sound, you can feed it power all day, so it likes a lot of amplification. I even fed it with my Lyr to see what it would do it and it still had that laid back dark sound, but with more volume and a tad more zing to things.

If you're wanting an open headphone with bass impact, not a lot of them are going to hit hard and low like a closed headphone does. If you can be ok with that, the HD650 will sound very different compared to the M50. You're suddenly going to hear a sound stage that you've not had with the M50. You're going to listen to treble and it's not going to be harsh, you'll think you're in a dampened cave, compared to the M50. The bass isn't going to just thump and slam, it's going to hum. If that doesn't sound like what you want, then I would put you on the Denon D5000. Or if you're willing to shell out, for an open-air that can slam you, the HE-500 (price prohibitive).

Very best,

The D2000 is more along the lines of a natural upgrade from the M50.  The bass hits harder, but isn't as overpowering as the M50.  Even a very bassy open headphone like the DT990's bass is nothing in comparison to the M50.  

The D2000 is harsher than the M50 IMO.  I think it's more of a side-grade than an upgrade.  The HD650 is pretty different from the M50 too though, and you NEED a beastly amp for them. 

compared to the M50, the HD650 has:

less lower bass/bass, maybe about equal upper bass

less treble and also more refined treble that sounds more natural, softer, more organic, less piercing

more midrange and lower midrange presence by far, with a richer, smoother tone

about equal upper midrange presence, neither one has peaky upper mids

bigger soundstage

better imaging

detail is more subtle due to the wamer signature, whereas the M50 throws detail in your face but is ultimately less resolving of fine details

less bass "punch", the HD650 doesn't give you the feeling that the bass is hitting or punching and creating pressure like the M50 does

with the HD650, the bass is more in balance with the rest of the spectrum, or a part of the whole, whereas with the M50 the bass can tend to stick out and make it's self known. 

A sidegrade?  Wow.

The D2000 tops the M50 in nearly every category save portability, noise isolation and the fowardness of vocals.

@cactus_farmer:

HD650s are laid back, so be prepared for an enormous difference from the M50s which are a bit forward in comparison. The D2000 is also quite different from M50 with it's U shaped FR curve, midrange suckout, and "boom boom blurbb boom boom." The D2000 bass is not as tight sounding as the M50 and there's certainly a lot more of it. Personally I'd take an HD650, but as some have said, the treble may be too attenuated.

You may want to try something cheaper to test out. The HD558 (can do the "598" mods) actually has a sonic signature closest to the M50 among the headphones mentioned so far. DT990 might be OK if you are ready for a little treble spikeage.

Is there any way you can attend meets or maybe try-and-buy first?  Headphones are really a matter of picking your poison.

TBH I can't remember if I've heard the D2000 or just the woody models, but I preferred the M50 simply because it sounded more even to me.  Which is why the term "better" is pretty useless here.  Too many preferences at play. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by TMRaven 

A sidegrade?  Wow.

 

The D2000 tops the M50 in nearly every category save portability, noise isolation and the fowardness of vocals.

The D2000 is sidegrade or even possibly a downgrade. Ringing in the treble, bloated muddy bass, midrange suckout, low resolution. Sorry, the D2000 is one of the worst "closed" headphones for noise isolation too - it's basically no better than an open can. The OP did indicate a preference for neutrality. D2000 doesn't do that.

Have you heard the M50  compared to the D2000, though?  The M50's bass is more bloated and muddy than the D2000's.  They both have awkward treble.  In fact, the M50 sounds off-timbre and metallic overall compared to the D2000 or other higher priced cans.  Both M50 and D2000 have a midrange suckout.  This isn't even getting into soundstage and comfort.

What songs in particular did you use to test the resolution of the D2000 vs the M50?  In my findings, the D2000 offers more clarity overall when compared to the M50.

I would recommend the HD650 for something more neutral and natural, as it comes closest to what my pair of PSB speakers sound like.  However, at times they lack the sparkle of the PSBs.  OP did mention neutrality, but he hints that he wants something with just as much punch and rumble as the M50.  Something which the HD650 does not do.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TMRaven 

Have you heard the M50  compared to the D2000, though?  The M50's bass is more bloated and muddy than the D2000's.  They both have awkward treble.  In fact, the M50 sounds off-timbre and metallic overall compared to the D2000 or other higher priced cans.  Both M50 and D2000 have a midrange suckout.  This isn't even getting into soundstage and comfort.

 

What songs in particular did you use to test the resolution of the D2000 vs the M50?  In my findings, the D2000 offers more clarity overall when compared to the M50.

 

 

I would recommend the HD650 for something more neutral and natural, as it comes closest to what my pair of PSB speakers sound like.  However, at times they lack the sparkle of the PSBs.  OP did mention neutrality, but he hints that he wants something with just as much punch and rumble as the M50.  Something which the HD650 does not do.

I've owned the D5000 and have the M50 right in front of me. I've also measured them. I did not recommend the HD650 to the OP either. The M50 has some bass, but is not a "rumble" headphone. Besides the OP also stated the desire for an open headphone.

People who class the HD650 as veiled, too laid back and boring are on the extreme opposite end of the spectrum from where I stand. The HD650 gets more things right than wrong imo, and most importantly nails the engagement factor for music. System synergy is key though, and I'm of the opinion the polarising views are testament to this.

The HD650's rendition of bass isn't a benchmark, but it's articulate and well defined through my modest rig. I'm listening to The Field's "Looping State of Mind" at the moment and it's all there. It would be a shame to forgo all the other goodness for some overly critical views of a single aspect of the HD650's presentation.

There was not a single thing I missed when I sold my M50 to help fund the HD650. I payed no heed to the polarising views and went in blind. I'm glad I did, because I found my preferred sound signature as a result. I also learnt that Head-Fi impressions cannot be taken as gospel.

I totally agree. But sometimes I think most head-fi'ers are still stuck in the "lots of bass" stage. We always hear from people saying how only closed can have this punch, impact, or slam, whereas personally I feel differently - that only open cans can provide punch, impact, and slam. Closed cans do provide better extension though.

I'm sure not sure if people who are graduating from lesser cans are ready for something truly excellent like the HD650. I'm glad you posted what you did though.

want to upgrade from my m50 as well (to open headphones).  also considering the grado ps500.  would this be a better option than the hd650?