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Does everyone here agree? - Page 3

post #31 of 55

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hifianddrumming View Post

 Okay, so I had to write a rant for English. Just clearing it up with you guys that I have my facts straight. Also, cut me some slack, I'm 14.

 

 50 years ago, people had massive stereo systems. They would sit down, put on some vinyl, and blast it through a massive set of tube-amplified, floor standing speakers. The sound came through warm, rich and crystal clear, the sound was immersive, and people sat and just listened, listened to all the nuances and emotion. Music was something like TV is nowadays. It was a primary source of entertainment, considered normal to just sit and listen to it, with no other distractions.

 

 But after vinyl, CDs became popular. “Digitalization” brought a rise in compact systems. These systems were compact, easy to use and manage and could be used almost anywhere. But they didn’t have that same life of sound. They weren’t used very much anymore, at least not as a primary source of entertainment, because they weren’t captivating. They were background noise. What’s the point of artists spending years to create an album, when all you’re going to do is flip it on for background noise once in a while, what’s the point? You’ll listen to one song and then the album will collect dust. Amazing.

 

 Oh, but it gets worse. As things get more miniaturized, mp3 players come in. True digital audio. But guess what? It’s compressed to the point of death. Now, you can hear your favourite artists sounding like they’re singing into a tin can. Genius. Then, they include these small little things called earbuds, innovative; they seem so nice and small, convenient. And, they butcher the sound even further. Who wouldn’t want these?

 

 Again, why? What’s the point?

 

 Portability, you may say. And you know what? I agree. I actually like the idea of sound for the masses. More music for the people. But what did this radical change actually do? It drove it further into society’s head that music is a background thing, just for “in between places.”

 

 Another thing that came with digitalization is illegal downloads. Isn’t that great? Hordes of music all for free? But really, I’m sure the bands who are trying to make a living off their music agree as well. There’s a reason they’re called illegal downloads.

 

 Now with an emergence of beats, skullcandy, and bose, all ripping people off by the billions a year, good sound seems to be a minimal priority. I’m not saying to spend thousands of dollars on music, stereo sytems, headphones etc. All I’m saying is can’t we get a 70 dollar pair of Grados, or Sennheisers, or AKGs, and for once in our life, just enjoy the music, nothing else?


 

Very good essay A+.


 

You cover four important topics,

 

- actually listening to music versus background noise.

 

- illegal downloads versus physical media.

 

- beats, skullcandy and bose (overpriced marketing) versus true high quality sound (for cheaper).

 

- The illusion of constant advancement in technology.

 

 

 

 

post #32 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elysian View Post

Things are much better now than they were 20-30 years ago.  Starting with the cassette Sony Walkman, then going to portable CD players, then the first few generations of PMP3s, and finally good quality players like the Apple and Cowon devices, there has been a definite improvement in sound quality every few years. [...]


I'd hardly call it a definite improvement, especially around these parts where people are prepared to pay $800 for a modern cassette tape walkman.

 

Apple, Sony and smartphones are obsessed with looks and battery life, so I think they tend to have quite low mW which results in poor resolution in the sound quality. Cowon are too fixated on enhancing the sound, there is nothing clean or pure in a Cowon, I saw a measurement on "flat" that was all over the place, horrid.

 

 

post #33 of 55
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kiteki View Post

 


 

Very good essay A+.


 

You cover four important topics,

 

- actually listening to music versus background noise.

 

- illegal downloads versus physical media.

 

- beats, skullcandy and bose (overpriced marketing) versus true high quality sound (for cheaper).

 

- The illusion of constant advancement in technology.

 

 

 

 




 Thanks for the positivity. I've revised it a little bit to downplay some of the hyper boles, but I always thought rants were supposed to be about exaggerating and being one-sided, not providing complete and structured factual evidence.

post #34 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by kiteki View Post

I'd hardly call it a definite improvement, especially around these parts where people are prepared to pay $800 for a modern cassette tape walkman.

 

Apple, Sony and smartphones are obsessed with looks and battery life, so I think they tend to have quite low mW which results in poor resolution in the sound quality. Cowon are too fixated on enhancing the sound, there is nothing clean or pure in a Cowon, I saw a measurement on "flat" that was all over the place, horrid.


Are you arguing that the last 20-30 years of portable players are better than the current generation line-up of $100-300 PMP3s?

 

I have no idea what you're trying to contend.  You're just throwing around unbacked criticism of gear.  I'm not a big Apple fan, but I wouldn't say the current-gen iPod has poor resolution in sound quality.

 

Cowon RMAA comparisons from the AnythingButiPod community:
http://www.anythingbutipod.com/forum/showthread.php?t=39435


RMAA: S9, O2, D2, X5 - 16 Ohm Loads, Full Volume

http://rmaa.elektrokrishna.com/Comparisons/S9,%20O2,%20D2,%20X5%20-%2016%20Ohm%20Loads,%20Full%20Volume.htm

 

RMAA: S9, O2, D2, X5 - No Loads, Full Volume (how a headphone amp would "see" the players)

http://rmaa.elektrokrishna.com/Comparisons_%28No_Loads%29/S9,%20O2,%20D2,%20X5%20-%20No%20Loads,%20Full%20Volume.htm


Edited by Elysian - 11/12/11 at 12:43am
post #35 of 55

 

I dunno we never did rants in English class but you covered those 4 points which I think are some real-world hot topics (or should be) in audio.

 

 

When you're asked to do a satire perhaps you can write about why "THE BEATS" are the best in the world.

 

post #36 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elysian View Post


Are you arguing that the last 20-30 years of portable players are better than the current generation line-up of $100-300 PMP3s?

 

I have no idea what you're trying to contend.  You're just throwing around unbacked criticism of gear.  I'm not a big Apple fan, but I wouldn't say the current-gen iPod has poor resolution in sound quality.

 

Cowon RMAA comparisons from the AnythingButiPod community:
http://www.anythingbutipod.com/forum/showthread.php?t=39435


RMAA: S9, O2, D2, X5 - 16 Ohm Loads, Full Volume

http://rmaa.elektrokrishna.com/Comparisons/S9,%20O2,%20D2,%20X5%20-%2016%20Ohm%20Loads,%20Full%20Volume.htm

 

RMAA: S9, O2, D2, X5 - No Loads, Full Volume (how a headphone amp would "see" the players)

http://rmaa.elektrokrishna.com/Comparisons_%28No_Loads%29/S9,%20O2,%20D2,%20X5%20-%20No%20Loads,%20Full%20Volume.htm


No I'm just saying I wouldn't call it a "definite" improvement, when some people are paying big bucks for 'modern' gear with 20-30 year old technology (Hifiman DAP's).

 

I agree modern technology is superior but 99% of consumers are more interested in looks and battery life than performance, I'm not very familiar with Apple stuff but I don't like the low mW output on the modern Sony devices, and it's commonly known that the early discmans had the best sound quality and then it went downhill!

 

Cowon is pretty cool but I felt like there was an annoying 'veil' on the sound of the S9 so I was disappointed, I have seen a measurement graph once of a Cowon that was a a very 'S' shaped wave.

 

I'm not sure why you're defending the latest gear anyway if you're such a NeoGeo fan like your profile says, I mean those consoles didn't even have stereo IIIRC. ;)

 

 

post #37 of 55
You're 14. And very lucky. Seriously; I'll get back to that.

I'm going to be 40 soon. I still remember vacuum tubes for sale at the local supermarket and a TV repairman coming to the house.

Also, I've poked around old tube gear starting around the time you were born. smily_headphones1.gif

The Good Old Days were not that good. For one, the old tube gear was unreliable and inaccurate. It used old wax/paper caps and terrible carbon comp resistors. Most gear was hopelessly out of spec most of the time. I've replaced thousands of them. Only with modern capacitors and resistors have tubes become dependable and reliable. You've never seen the old caps melt. Or resistors change value all the time. The old stuff was crap.

Further, speaker drivers, crossovers and cabinets have come a long way over the past 15 years, with computer modelling. They are better now than they ever have been. Same with turntables. Modern parts - especially cartridges - are better than they were.

And, as much as I love vinyl, I'm convinced that digital is better. Especially hi-rez. Furthermore, great digital has never been cheaper. Even a $50 DVD player outclasses everything from 50 years ago. Moreover, that $50 DVD player is about as good as anything on the market for sound quality. You don't need to buy a $3,000 CD player. Digital sources are incredibly good today. That upsets some people, but it really is a cause for celebration. A major problem with audio was solved and it's damned cheap today.

And you are incredibly lucky to be 14. When I was 14, great audio was a dream. Today, it's so cheap that a 14 year old can have a wonderful system. I wish I had what you have when I was 14. Appreciate it. Today, you can have a perfect source for peanuts. You can buy used speakers that are excellent on the cheap. You can get inexpensive and terrific solid state amps cheap. And tube gear is actuall reliable today. To top it off, you have an amazing selection of music. You have no idea how expensive it was to buy music and you've never known a world wihout the Internet. Like I said, you are lucky. Enjoy it. Appreciate it.

Though I am loving it, too. Vacuum tubes are fun instead of a pain. Grabbing used CDs for $1 thrills me. So don't get nostalgic; this is a great time to be in audio. If you had another 25 years of perspective, you'd see it. You'll get there. But you really should be happy where you are today. It's pretty good.
post #38 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by Astrozombie View Post

It's just always funny when people say "things aint what they used to be" "they don't make um like that anymore" "oh those were the days" but were they really? Were things actually better or are you only focusing on the positive and forgetting the negative?


Positive/negative/better depends on which angle you're pursuing it from.

 

Sure digital cameras these days are superior to older film cameras, but does looking at a digital photo on Facebook invoke the same feeling as when you admire a printed photo from years ago? It's not all about the technicalities, imo. I'd pour through my old photo albums from when I was a kid, when some of the people who are now gone were still alive and kicking, and get a little "I miss those days" feeling. My sixth birthday - big cake in the shape of 6, some kids gathering around with party hats and other silly stuff. When I was 2 - sticking my head out of my grandfather's van. Would I still get the feeling if I viewed the photos on Facebook? No. 

 

But it's all me.

 

Edit:

 

But some things don't apply to the above. CDs, flash drives, thumb drivers VS 3.5 floppy disks. Obviously 3.5 floppies fail in comparison. 


Edited by Blue Boat - 11/12/11 at 1:03am
post #39 of 55

If one buys gear based on measurements, there are better options out there than the Hifiman HM-801.  One of their employees gets involved in the conversation as it progresses.

 

I'm not really a big fan of Neo-Geo anymore as I'm bored of the old MVS games.  I refurbish arcade hardware out of nostalgia, but I spend more time working in the internals than booting up my supergun.  You're also incorrect.  Both Neo-Geo and CPS2 have stereo sound.  Just look at the mainboards, or run it through the jukebox and you'll clearly hear sound coming from both channels.

 

You can also mod a Sega Genesis to get stereo sound out, even from one that is wired for mono.

 

I'm not really defending the latest gear so much as pointing out the rose colored glasses some are wearing about how good things were back in the day.  They really weren't, and my WaveLink and Alpha DAC remind me of that every day.  And yes, I went through a vinyl phase, and though I recently picked up a preamp with a phonostage, I probably won't be going back anytime soon due to what a pain it is to deal with vinyl.


Edited by Elysian - 11/12/11 at 1:08am
post #40 of 55

No idea, I wasn't around back then. >_>

A little OT but what ever happened to horn speakers? They just sunk into oblivion a century ago or something?

Curious because my Dad bought a horn/dynamic hybrid speaker a few years back and I never really 'got' why.

post #41 of 55

I don't see problem with background listening.. I'm doing it everyday and its among main purposes for me to go into this hobby

 

Btw isn't digital audio have far batter SNR than vinyl system? I don't get the term "life of sound"..

Another good thing about digital audio is that I can have a playlist of like a few ten-thousands tracks to play by random at anytime with just a few clicks.


Edited by kn19h7 - 11/12/11 at 12:59pm
post #42 of 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by rezel View Post

No idea, I wasn't around back then. >_>

A little OT but what ever happened to horn speakers? They just sunk into oblivion a century ago or something?

Curious because my Dad bought a horn/dynamic hybrid speaker a few years back and I never really 'got' why.

(sorry for the OT)

 

It all depends on where you are, I don't know what it's like in australia but if you ever go to germany you'll find plenty of them in any decent high end store. I believe there's a lot of them in japan, too.

 


 

 


Edited by customcoco - 11/13/11 at 5:36am
post #43 of 55
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kn19h7 View Post

I don't see problem with background listening.. I'm doing it everyday and its among main purposes for me to go into this hobby

 

Btw isn't digital audio have far batter SNR than vinyl system? I don't get the term "life of sound"..

Another good thing about digital audio is that I can have a playlist of like a few ten-thousands tracks to play by random at anytime with just a few clicks.



 I don't have a big problem with it, just the fact that that's all it is used for now. Background noise.

post #44 of 55

I have a good link on this topic.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8r1CZTLk-Gk&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Ear buds rule BTW

post #45 of 55

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hifianddrumming View Post

 I don't have a big problem with it, just the fact that that's all it is used for now. Background noise.


Do you actually have any evidence to claim this "fact" is accurate?  I know a lot of people who own PMPs and portable headphones/IEMs.  All of them have times when they just sit on their couch and just listen to music.  I've also seen plenty of people (young and old) sitting on a bus/train/public bench/etc with the earbuds and they are just listening to music - not doing anything else.  Does one have to be sitting at home, in a special room, to be considered to be listening to music as a singular activity?

 

Despite what has already been said in this thread, you seem to be making up this "fact." Music players have become cheap and ubiquitous and so you see more people listening to music now.  30 years ago you were forced to sit at home and listen to music and only a select handful of people could afford the time and money to listen to music as a singular activity.  If you were a working adult with kids, maybe you listened to an hour or two of music on Saturday morning, and you could only do that if you had the peace of mind to sit down focus only on music.  Things are different now.  More people can enjoy recorded music and you can do it in a wide range of situations.


Edited by odigg - 11/13/11 at 7:51am
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