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Exploring the mysterious NOS DAC jungle... or maybe not?

post #1 of 16
11/10/11 at 3:08pm
Thread Starter 

Hi everyone,

 

this is my story: some time ago I've decided to get into the head-fi, so I recycled some things that I previously had (my Beresford TC-7510 DAC and my sweet AKG K601) and threw a Little Dot MKII in the mix.

 

My chain is as follow:

 

Source: iMac 24"

Transport: HA INFO U2 USB-to-SPDIF

DAC: Beresford TC 7510

Amp: Little Dot MKII (trying different tubes... now I'm burning in some Mullard M8083 CV4014 and I'm liking them)

 

The transport is junk.

Really.

I just bought it off the bay for ~20€ because the mac's optical out sucks and it gets the job done.

 

The problem is that on heavy compressed music and old recordings the highs are too harsh, shrilling, and it kills my ears.

Generally speaking, the listening is always a bit fatiguing.

 

So I intend to replace the DAC with something softer, lusher, more relaxed, laid back.

 

I searched the 'net for a while and came across "NOS DACs" such as the Valab and the Lite DAC-AH.

Looking at the description it seems that they have some "vintage" qualities like a relaxed and lush sound which definitely appeals me.

Does anyone have experience with one of those "NOS DACs"?

 

Also, you guys have to know that I'm in love with Audio-GD products and I was thinking of getting myself a nice NFB-12 but I'm afraid that it may not tame the "wild" highs... but then, I see that lately there has been implemented some sort of digital filter which may help me achieve the kind of sound that I'm after.

 

My budget is 200€ (roughly 270$), I'm open to any suggestion and I'm strongly encouraging you to give me alternatives to those mentioned before.

Remember that what I'm trying to achieve is a "softer" sound, without sacrificing too much transparency or details and/or completely killing the highs.

 

Thanks. :)

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post #2 of 16
11/11/11 at 7:59am
Thread Starter 

Today I've found this while browsing for DACs:

 

http://www.ebay.it/itm/ROSS-MARTIN-AUDIO-24-Bit-PCM1794A-SPDIF-TOSLINK-DAC-LOW-DISTORTION-USA-/320791440472

 

I've seen a thread here on head-fi but couldn't get if it might be the right one for me or not.

 

Any advice?

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post #3 of 16
11/11/11 at 8:45am

Look for a used Cambridge DACmagic. While still internally upsampling, it does have a lush, forgiving and organic sound without losing detail. For a while I used the Cambridge DAC inside an 840c (essentially the same) and was very happy with the sound.

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post #4 of 16
11/11/11 at 9:45am
Thread Starter 

Thanks for the tip, I'll definitely look into it.

 

Any other suggestions?

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post #5 of 16
11/12/11 at 6:36am

No detail is lost during oversampling, but detail is lost with NOS dacs there frequency responce falls apart past 10KHZ.

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post #6 of 16
11/12/11 at 7:03am
Thread Starter 

well, actually I think that's what I was looking for: something that would cut or "round" those very high frequencies that gives sibilance in my ear.

 

Or maybe I'm just doing it wrong?

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post #7 of 16
11/12/11 at 7:16am

It depends on the dac, i've seen graphs showing +5db peaks after 10khz and some -5db dips. Nos dacs have various disadvantages http://www.head-fi.org/t/438220/nos-dac-marketing-bs , If you want rolled off treble you should get some headphones or speakers that roll off the treble early.

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post #8 of 16
11/12/11 at 8:18am
Thread Starter 

I see (I've read the first pages of that topic), so you're suggesting me to act on the headphones rather than the DAC.

 

It's a pity because I really love my K601, the only problem is that "glare" that comes in on bad recordings around 8Khz. Today I've tried to solve the problem with my mixer and the problem is indeed around that frequency. I've tried to lower frequencies over 12khz but didn't solve the harshness problem.

 

My headphone is just too good on 24/96 material and good old recordings (Alan Parsons' albums come to my mind, godlike mixing and recording).

 

Anyway, I'll consider your suggestion and see what I can do while I wait for (hopefully) someone else to show up and listen to his opinion ;)

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post #9 of 16
11/12/11 at 8:23am

Yea you can eq the frequencys, or if that doesn't work try some new headphones.


Edited by JRG1990 - 11/12/11 at 8:27am
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post #10 of 16
11/12/11 at 8:25am

If you know what the problem is and where it occurs, don't buy a DAC (or amp) to attempt to alleviate it. Use an equalizer, or even experiment with DIY pad and foam changes in your headphones to see if you can fix it. You buy a DAC, you're stuck with that DAC, or you take a loss selling it. You use an EQ, you can experiment until you get everything right, and you can turn it off if you buy new headphones in the future.

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post #11 of 16
11/12/11 at 6:05pm
Thread Starter 

Good point.

 

Today I've isolated the frequencies that produce that harshness and they peaks at 6,5 Khz but they range from 6 k to 7 k.


Personally I hate equalizers because I see them as a sort of "cheat" or shortcut and they always end up screwing the sound, so I prefer a "hardware" solution, if you get what I mean.

 

Maybe I'll get some new headphones... I have yet to decide.

As of now I'm looking at the cheap Lite DAC-AH which I can easily resell (another forum user told me that if it didn't solve the problem he would buy it from me because he once owned one and has been regretting the day that he sold it all the way).

 

I still have to make my mind on what to do, I'm asking around different forums for tips and advices.

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post #12 of 16
11/15/11 at 2:45pm
Thread Starter 

In the end I decided to buy the cheap Lite DAC-AH, I've ordered it today.

 

If I don't like it, I will easily sell it to a friend of mine who wanted it, so there'll be almost no loss.

 

Though, before giving up, I'll probably mod the hell out of it.

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post #13 of 16
11/15/11 at 10:08pm

I've got 3 Lite DAC-AHs which are currently having their guts modded the hell out of them. Its a great platform for modding as the PCB isn't one of those el-cheapo ones that falls apart at the first brush with a hot iron, nor is it solder-masked to high heaven so you can't follow the tracks. First thing to note with the stock AH is they fit the wrong value of I/V resistors so high levels will clip it (given it has 8 paralleled TDA1543s there's no shortage of output current).

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post #14 of 16
11/16/11 at 10:16am
Thread Starter 

Yeah, even if it will not solve my problem or fit my tastes it will sure be lots of fun.

Because of it I'm getting a lot of knowledge in how those DAC works and their components.

 

I have a neat idea on how to add an USB input but I don't know if it will be possible until I have the unit.

Maybe I'll even start a thread for the project I have on my mind.

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post #15 of 16
11/16/11 at 12:50pm

At that price range, you might be able to find a USED MHDT Labs Paradisea DAC (with tube buffer). I owned one a good bit back and found it to be quite the excellent bit of gear, even for it's (new) asking price of 400 to 500 dollars (not totally sure).

 

Here's a decent review (I've never seen a negative review, actually): http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue38/mhdt_paradisea.htm

 

Also, the Constantine DAC, also from MHDT Labs is the same as the Paradisea but without the tube buffer ... 

 

Both are very musical, very analogue-esque (if I may) and I specifically moved towards them (and the NOS camp in generaal) because, like yourself, I cannot stand anything overtly shrill or "computery/digital" sounding. Also, my main cans are Grado GS1000's and they are about as nitpicky with the whole source/high freq issue as I can imagine.

 

Both of the above are excellent entry level DACS and are a great value for the money.

 

Good luck finding something.

 

.j

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