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Why do so many people label the K701/2 as neutral?

post #1 of 33
11/6/11 at 8:14pm
Thread Starter 

So I've been reading a lot of posts here which claim that the K701/2 have a neutral sound signature. After listening to these things out of a Burson HA160 for the past few weeks I'm curious as to why. It seems to me that a lot of headphones without a mid-bass hump have the propensity to be referred to as "neutral". 

 

IMO the K701 are far from neutral, and perhaps one of the least neutral cans I've listened to for an extended period of time. Their bass response is definitely not neutral to me - it has depth but is very light on quantity even on the Burson which is supposedly one of the bassiest K701 amp matchings. The midrange sounds thin to me at times, which is a result of the huge soundstage that seems to mess with vocals making them sound distant. Treble wise I don't find them overly bright but I would still say they are slightly brighter than neutral.

 

Have I got my standard of neutral wrong? Is the term "neutral" subjective or a measurable quantity?


Edited by leng jai - 11/6/11 at 8:23pm
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post #2 of 33
11/6/11 at 8:19pm

I always assumed it meant a relatively flat response curve (no particular emphasis or gaping de-emphasis). I do not know that there is a rigorous definition though. 

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post #3 of 33
11/6/11 at 8:21pm

888 posts! Sweet!

 

I found them bright. Bass-light headphones tend to be touted as neutral here though.

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post #4 of 33
11/6/11 at 8:34pm

It's all comparative, any headphone be it bass light or even bass heavy can become your neutral.

 

I see from your sig you've also got the D7000 and T1, both quite bass emphatic headphones, clearly any headphone in comparison even the most neutral would seem lacking in comparison.

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post #5 of 33
11/6/11 at 8:40pm

Some people think the LCD-2 is neutral. Others think the Hifiman RE0 is neutral. I have both and they couldn't sound more different.

 

Neutrality can be quantified, sort of. It's just that even when quantifying it, there are different standards. An objectively neutral headphone is going to want to match a free field or diffuse field equalization, or be somewhere in between (there's lots of debate over that). That won't always mean subjectively neutral, though. Everyone's ears are shaped differently, and perceive real world sound differently as a result. So one headphone that's objectively neutral for one person may sound unnatural to the next. The headphone should just aim for the standards, and hope for the best.

 

Another problem with subjective neutrality is that not everyone wants neutrality, but almost everyone in this hobby wants to think that they want neutrality. Who wants to admit that they like coloration, in a hobby that historically aimed for purity of signal? So one person will prefer a bass-heavy headphone and call it neutral, the next will like a treble-heavy headphone and call it neutral. Just like one person will like the harmonic distortion of tubes or the euphonic treble roll-off of bad equipment and call it "natural".

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post #6 of 33
11/6/11 at 8:47pm

I'm happy to say I love to dive into a big rainbows of coloration smily_headphones1.gif

 

Different shades for everyday of the week, total respect for

the neutral types among us but as a Grado fan, no point in

living in denial eh?

 

rainbow-unicorn.jpg

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post #7 of 33
11/6/11 at 8:48pm

I think Grado fans are an exception. If any of them claimed neutrality, they'd get beat up.

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post #8 of 33
11/6/11 at 9:13pm
Thread Starter 

I would consider the T1s slightly above neutral in bass response and the D7000 in some other stratosphere. I wouldn't call the T1 bass emphatic - I think it's tonal balance is it's greatest strength. My first "high end" headphones were the HD595s which I used exclusively for almost 2 years and they are not bass heavy by any means.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Graphicism View Post

It's all comparative, any headphone be it bass light or even bass heavy can become your neutral.

 

I see from your sig you've also got the D7000 and T1, both quite bass emphatic headphones, clearly any headphone in comparison even the most neutral would seem lacking in comparison.



 

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post #9 of 33
11/6/11 at 9:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by leng jai View Post

I would consider the T1s slightly above neutral in bass response and the D7000 in some other stratosphere. I wouldn't call the T1 bass emphatic - I think it's tonal balance is it's greatest strength. My first "high end" headphones were the HD595s which I used exclusively for almost 2 years and they are not bass heavy by any means.
 

 

It goes without saying the D7000 is attuned for bass and much more embellished than the T1. Coming from the DT880 I found the T1 "cinematic" in comparison, again this is down to what I consider as neutral. I haven't spent much time with the HD595, but the HD600s are another set of cans I would consider neutral.

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post #10 of 33
11/7/11 at 2:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Head Injury View Post

Some people think the LCD-2 is neutral. Others think the Hifiman RE0 is neutral. I have both and they couldn't sound more different.

 

Neutrality can be quantified, sort of. It's just that even when quantifying it, there are different standards. An objectively neutral headphone is going to want to match a free field or diffuse field equalization, or be somewhere in between (there's lots of debate over that). That won't always mean subjectively neutral, though. Everyone's ears are shaped differently, and perceive real world sound differently as a result. So one headphone that's objectively neutral for one person may sound unnatural to the next. The headphone should just aim for the standards, and hope for the best.

 

Another problem with subjective neutrality is that not everyone wants neutrality, but almost everyone in this hobby wants to think that they want neutrality. Who wants to admit that they like coloration, in a hobby that historically aimed for purity of signal? So one person will prefer a bass-heavy headphone and call it neutral, the next will like a treble-heavy headphone and call it neutral. Just like one person will like the harmonic distortion of tubes or the euphonic treble roll-off of bad equipment and call it "natural".

 

QFT and well said.
 

 

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post #11 of 33
11/7/11 at 4:27am

The K702 are more balanced if you compare to the top today hps, but compared to the Pioneer monitor 10, and DT48S, the 702's are not so balanced.

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post #12 of 33
11/7/11 at 4:32am

well, some even claimed the ed8 as neutral

 

...run~

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post #13 of 33
11/7/11 at 4:41am

Neutral is just about as subjective as it gets. If you listen to a Audeze LCD-2, Senn HD650, and then a K701/2, you'd think you're in neutral heaven. Even if you defined neutral objectively as a perfectly flat frequency response graph, people still have different years.

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post #14 of 33
11/7/11 at 5:39am
the 701 not bad headphone but personally i didn't like it since before when i actually got a chance to hear a pair i was so use to older AKG models(AKG 240 sextetts lp,akg 240DF and K501) so it did not sound right to me personally and did not compared to them.
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post #15 of 33
11/7/11 at 3:20pm
Thread Starter 

What I've derived from this thread is that neutral is yet another largely ambiguous term used in audio that has not way of being objectively measured. Seems like this hobby has a lot of them.

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