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new to speakers without amps

post #1 of 18
11/4/11 at 3:47pm
Thread Starter 

 

I have the Logitech z-640 (5.1 surround system), but the center channel has died. So I tried to buy a set of speakers to run with the Logitech z-640's (using an audio splitter off of the sound card), but also have better bass than the Logitech z-640. I bought the Logitech Z623, but they are a major appointment. The Z623 use a piddly 7-inch driver. I wish the Logitech z-3200s were still being made...
 
So I think my best bet is to drop the cash to buy speakers that are better than computer speakers. I'm looking at buying the "Polk Audio CS10 Center Channel" and "Polk Audio PSW10 10-Inch Monitor Series Powered Subwoofer." So my question is: is the amplifier in the powered PSW10 sufficient to drive the center channel CS10 and possibly other speakers in the future? I don't really want to have to buy an external amplifier if I don't have to... I move a lot because of my job, so I would prefer to be on the portable side. Are these two a good choice for good quality audio and powerful bass? I'd like to stay under $300.
 
Also, I need power at lower volume levels. I can't be obnoxiously loud in order to get desk-shacking bass. I.e. I want the bass to be able to be much louder than the regular channels. The Z623 can have decent bass for a party if you crank it up, but it's non-existent at lower volume levels.
 
Amazon links: 
 
Edit: since the Polk Audio PSW505 are on sale for only $100 more and they have a 12-inch driver with 300 watts of continuous output (460 dynamic) compared to the PSW10 which is a 10-inch driver and only 50 watts of continuous output (100 dynamic), I'm thinking I will go with the PSW505s. Are there any problems with this setup?
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post #2 of 18
11/4/11 at 6:57pm

The sub can't drive the monitors and a center channel speaker is not a good choice for your main listening.  Given that you move a lot, you are probably better off buying powered speakers but something better than the logitech you had been listening to.  This 2.1 set up from Swan is a good choice and fits your budget at $279: http://www.theaudioinsider.com/product_info.php?p=swan-m50w&products_id=167

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post #3 of 18
11/5/11 at 3:46am

Hmm if u want party sized audio set up why not go with good/decent floor standers with beefy stereo/power amp and get a really awesome sub later (if $$ a limiting factor) HSU subs come to mind hehe

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post #4 of 18
11/5/11 at 9:25am
Thread Starter 

 

Thank you both for the replies, I've spent several more hours researching.

 

I suppose that my worry (although there are conflicting reviews) with the Swan m50w is that it won't have powerful low bass with it's 6-inch driver. I listen to a lot of dubstep (although more the chill than rave stuff), play first person shooter games, and occasionally host a party, so I'd prefer powerful bass. But on the other hand, I understand why you suggested them because of their build-quality and clarity in the mids and sparkly highs. It seems like a good system, but not exactly what I am hoping for and they aren't expandable.

 

When you say that the sub can't drive the monitor, are you talking about the PSW10 or the PSW505? And shouldn't the PSW505 be able to drive the center channel since it's specs say "20-125 w/channel" and the PSW505 specs say that it can produce 300 watts of continuous output?

 

But given what you said about the center channel, perhaps it would be better to go with the Polk Monitor30 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882290201).

 

Btw, I'm starting to get nervous that I might loose the option to buy the PSW505 for $200, as the new egg sale ends in 48 hours… So I'm hoping to make a decision by Monday.

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post #5 of 18
11/5/11 at 9:49am
Quote:
Originally Posted by djsilver View Post

 

Thank you both for the replies, I've spent several more hours researching.

 

I suppose that my worry (although there are conflicting reviews) with the Swan m50w is that it won't have powerful low bass with it's 6-inch driver. I listen to a lot of dubstep (although more the chill than rave stuff), play first person shooter games, and occasionally host a party, so I'd prefer powerful bass. But on the other hand, I understand why you suggested them because of their build-quality and clarity in the mids and sparkly highs. It seems like a good system, but not exactly what I am hoping for and they aren't expandable.

 

When you say that the sub can't drive the monitor, are you talking about the PSW10 or the PSW505? And shouldn't the PSW505 be able to drive the center channel since it's specs say "20-125 w/channel" and the PSW505 specs say that it can produce 300 watts of continuous output?

 

But given what you said about the center channel, perhaps it would be better to go with the Polk Monitor30 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882290201).

 

Btw, I'm starting to get nervous that I might loose the option to buy the PSW505 for $200, as the new egg sale ends in 48 hours… So I'm hoping to make a decision by Monday.


The Polk subs aren't designed to run the monitors.  It has nothing to do with power output, and everything to do with just not having any intention of doing that.  Computer speaker subs often include 3 amplifiers to run the sub and two speakers; theater and pro-audio subs are generally not intended for that purpose.

 

 

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post #6 of 18
11/5/11 at 10:52am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by barleyguy View Post


The Polk subs aren't designed to run the monitors.  It has nothing to do with power output, and everything to do with just not having any intention of doing that.  Computer speaker subs often include 3 amplifiers to run the sub and two speakers; theater and pro-audio subs are generally not intended for that purpose.

 

 


So what you're saying is that the sub is "powered" only in that it can run itself without needing amplification, but it cannot work as an amplifier for other speakers? I thought that was the whole point of buying a powered sub... Unless it's just to unburden an external amp from having to drive the subwoofer. So the reason you would still run the other speaker's signal wire through the subwoofer is so that the high-pass/low-pass filter would take out the lower bass signal and only send the mids/highs to the other speakers. Is that all correct?

 

So if I got the PSW505 sub, then I'd still have to get an external amp to power the other two speakers? If so, any suggestions on small/cheap/portable amps?

 

Thank you for all being so helpful, I really appreciate it.

 


Edited by djsilver - 11/5/11 at 10:54am
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post #7 of 18
11/5/11 at 12:17pm

Logitech and other computer setups like this have the amplifier housed in the same box as the subwoofer.

The rest of the audio world doesn't work this way you will either need to get:

 

1) separate amp for the speakers

2) self powered speakers with the amp built-in

3) See if you can run the Polks from the Logitech subwoofer/amp combo.

 

 

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post #8 of 18
11/5/11 at 1:12pm

Given that your 2 primary criteria are portability (since you move a lot) and a $300 budget, I'd skip the sub deal or no deal and focus on a good quality 2 channel.  Get a pair of the audioengine A5s ($349); they sound great (there will be some naysayers who will jump on the A-5s but I've listened to them extensively and compared them to other speakers, they are very, very good).   http://audioengineusa.com/Store/Audioengine-5   They also have an RCA out so you can add a sub later if you wish.  Alternatively (to keep you within your budget), check out the Swan M200MkII.  You can buy them for $279 from the audio insider (the US dealer) and they have a b stock pair at $250: http://www.theaudioinsider.com/product_info.php?p=swan-m200mkii&products_id=184

 

You can piece together a good quality 2 channel rig and amp for $300 but you will have to do some smart shopping.  On the amp, check out the refurbished Onkyo 8255 from accessories4less (it has a manufacturer's warranty):  http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/ONKTX8255/Onkyo-TX-8255-50-watts-2-channel-Stereo-Receiver/1.html  Then for speakers, I'd probably go for the cambridge s30 bookshelf speakers at $219 the pair: http://www.amazon.com/Cambridge-S30-N-Speakers-Black-Pair/dp/B004DAN3GQ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1320524183&sr=8-1

 

That will be a good sounding system and you get a tuner too boot.  The Onk lacks a sub out but so will most anything in your price range.  A sub can be added using hi level connections.  But the point is focus on the quality of the speakers, not the sub, given your budget.

 


Edited by alexsj - 11/5/11 at 1:20pm
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post #9 of 18
11/5/11 at 1:58pm
Thread Starter 

Hmm... This isn't easy.

 

I'm not totally dissatisfied with the surround mid-range speakers of my logitech system. So my thought is that I will buy the sub now (because I would prefer to upgrade the sub now when the PSW505 is on such a good sale), and then I can bide my time for maybe a year (possibly as soon as Christmans) and buy better bookshelf speakers/possibly an amp. I'm sure that is painful to hear... I just think that if I get a good sub that'll last me ~10 years and has the option to be used as self-powered or attached to an amp, then that gives me room to buy an amp and other speakers later.

 

So what is your opinion of the sub, PSW505? Good buy for $200? Or are their better alternatives for $100-$250?

 

Edit: Oh, and I just remembered that my parents have an old amp that they don't ever even use, so perhaps I can check out how worthwhile it is during Thanksgiving when I'll be home. That might save me >$100 and then I could buy un-powered bookshelf speakers.


Edited by djsilver - 11/5/11 at 2:09pm
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post #10 of 18
11/5/11 at 4:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by djsilver View Post

Hmm... This isn't easy.

 

I'm not totally dissatisfied with the surround mid-range speakers of my logitech system. So my thought is that I will buy the sub now (because I would prefer to upgrade the sub now when the PSW505 is on such a good sale), and then I can bide my time for maybe a year (possibly as soon as Christmans) and buy better bookshelf speakers/possibly an amp. I'm sure that is painful to hear... I just think that if I get a good sub that'll last me ~10 years and has the option to be used as self-powered or attached to an amp, then that gives me room to buy an amp and other speakers later.

 

So what is your opinion of the sub, PSW505? Good buy for $200? Or are their better alternatives for $100-$250?

 

Edit: Oh, and I just remembered that my parents have an old amp that they don't ever even use, so perhaps I can check out how worthwhile it is during Thanksgiving when I'll be home. That might save me >$100 and then I could buy un-powered bookshelf speakers.

 

That might be your best bet.  Vintage receivers often have better sound quality than modern ones, assuming the capacitors are still good. (most cheap receivers in the last 2 years are Class D and have increasing distortion at high volume)

 

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post #11 of 18
11/6/11 at 2:48am

Up to $250 for sub i would look at the Energy S10.3 tongue_smile.gif

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882269026

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post #12 of 18
11/6/11 at 6:57am

Vintage receivers don't sound better than modern amps, technology has moved forward. But if you can get a amp for free go with it.

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post #13 of 18
11/6/11 at 10:15am
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRG1990 View Post

Vintage receivers don't sound better than modern amps, technology has moved forward. But if you can get a amp for free go with it.



On the high end that's true.  High end amps sound as good or better than ever.  But anything affordable in the last couple of years is using $20 Class-D chipsets for the amplification, and IMO they don't sound that great.  Also, right in the spec sheets for those chipsets it shows that the distortion increases with power, generally hitting around 10% THD at rated power.

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post #14 of 18
11/6/11 at 11:40am

Distortion increases with power with all amps, Theres nothing wrong with class D amps and some of the cheaper amps do still manage to stay under 1% THD at there max output, the class of the amp isn't important sound quality wise.

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post #15 of 18
11/9/11 at 11:29am
Thread Starter 

Thanks everyone for the input. I bought the PSW505, and I love it!

 

It's much bigger than I thought it would be, and certainly heavier, but the sound quality it added to my system is amazing (even at very quiet levels). I notice the difference more when playing games such as FPS where there is gun fire and explosions, but there was also a marked improvement in music as well.

 

The main downsides are that it can easily be to powerful for a dorm, the size/weight, and it makes me realize just how lacking my other speakers are, haha. I already feel like I'll be buying speakers to improve my mids soon... But I've got to see what condition my parents old amp is in before I start laying plans.

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