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History of the AKG K1000? - Page 7

post #91 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackmore View Post

I would also suggest pretty cheap solution, unless you dont have the right amp to drive them, buy K701 or K702, both can do the piano very good and cost nothing these days, cheaper than switching to another amp etc, imo.

With all due respect, I would have to disagree - K701/2 is so much "less" than its fable hard to drive predecessor. I have found something that does not cost an arm and a leg - appearently a copy of SAC with some improvements : http://www.ebay.com/itm/FB1-GERMAN-VERSION-CLASS-A-HEADPHONE-AMP-BASE-ON-SAC-K1000-MODEL-FOR-AKG-/120997560493?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c2c0440ad. Comment enough on the availability/desirability of the K1000 is the fact that as of this writing, the above link is the sole "AKG K 1000" search result on ebay - not even the aftermarket cables offered, let alone K1000 themselves ...

 

Please note I have extremely good results with Technics SU-C04 integrated amp. HEAVILY MODIFIED !!!! It is 2x30W job, but it is not to be underestimated under any circumstances. I remember the slogan Technics was advertising it in British audio press back in the (1981 ) day :

 

 Nobody is offering you LESS for MORE  !  

 

It is a mini/midi format, about 30 cm /12 " largest dimension, but gets frequently demaged in transit, due to the fact it is incredibly heavy for such a minuscule size and people just do not get it it needs extraordinarily good packaging to survive the journey. 

 

In stock form, it will be unbearable and painful to listen with K1000 for anytthing like extended listening. Properly modified - that is another story altogether. It is still a bit too little voltage swing for K1000 for the loudest peaks like piano and percussion, but absolutely sublime for anything that requires a bit more normal volume(s). 

 

When compared to one of the smaller Tim de Paravicini's EAR tube amps, my SU-C04 won - by miles, no contest. On speakers that are satisfied with about 30 W - or K 1000.

 

At the moment, I am not prepared/interested in becoming a Member of the Trade and offering SU-C04 (and/or other ) modifications. Given enough demand, I might reconsider. I am not prepared to give away the knowledge/experience earned hard over many years as a DIY cookbook for free.

post #92 of 198

Maybe I dont understand correctly, but which predecessor you mean, K501?

 

THX

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by analogsurviver View Post

With all due respect, I would have to disagree - K701/2 is so much "less" than its fable hard to drive predecessor.

post #93 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackmore View Post

Maybe I dont understand correctly, but which predecessor you mean, K501?

 

THX

 

I meant K1000. I regard it as greatest ever AKG  - despite not being a headphone but ear-speaker.

 

Or precisely because of that.

post #94 of 198

Found another version of the amp from the link above, this time with both TRS and 4pin XLR connectors allowing for direct connection of K 1000 :

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120997552564

post #95 of 198

Well, then I am disagree to, cos you cant compare K1000 to anything else, and, they are certainly not an predecessor to K701/702 models, actually to anything.

 

THX

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by analogsurviver View Post

I meant K1000. I regard it as greatest ever AKG  - despite not being a headphone but ear-speaker.

 

Or precisely because of that.

post #96 of 198
To me the K1000 is kind of the predecessor to the HE6, they have similar driving requirements and not so similar but still speaker-like presentations. They're also obviously very different, but they are the only two real earspeakers that I know of. The HE6 takes the dynamic impact and bass extension up a notch or three, but the K1000's adjustable soundstage and natural crossfeed kind of make up for that.
post #97 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackmore View Post

Well, then I am disagree to, cos you cant compare K1000 to anything else, and, they are certainly not an predecessor to K701/702 models, actually to anything.

 

THX

 

 

Quote:

Agreed. K 1000 was and still is in a group/class all of it own. Put another way,  I just meant "predecessor" in historical timeline of AKG .

post #98 of 198

The SAC although made originally for the AKG K1000 is reputedly a very mediocre performer.

I have tried the RKV which is fairly respectable but has relatively limited power and voltage swing. There is also the Eartube which offers an alternative.

 

I believe the AKG K1000's need at least an 8 to 10 watt amplifier, but as most speaker amps are designed for 4-16 ohm loads, the actual power delivered can be fairly miniscule!  Some amplifiers can become unstable too at very low or very high impedance so its important to understand how they will react with such loads.

   

I'm surprised about your comments regarding the EAR Yoshino as I use the V20 with my K1000's without problems

There are other amplifiers that were made specifically for the K1000's like the Antique Sound Lab and nOhr SE9

 

Reputedly one of the best amplifiers for the K1000's is the Nelson Pass FirstWatt F1 current source amplifier or the updated version F1J

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by analogsurviver View Post

With all due respect, I would have to disagree - K701/2 is so much "less" than its fable hard to drive predecessor. I have found something that does not cost an arm and a leg - appearently a copy of SAC with some improvements : http://www.ebay.com/itm/FB1-GERMAN-VERSION-CLASS-A-HEADPHONE-AMP-BASE-ON-SAC-K1000-MODEL-FOR-AKG-/120997560493?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c2c0440ad. Comment enough on the availability/desirability of the K1000 is the fact that as of this writing, the above link is the sole "AKG K 1000" search result on ebay - not even the aftermarket cables offered, let alone K1000 themselves ...

 

Please note I have extremely good results with Technics SU-C04 integrated amp. HEAVILY MODIFIED !!!! It is 2x30W job, but it is not to be underestimated under any circumstances. I remember the slogan Technics was advertising it in British audio press back in the (1981 ) day :

 

 Nobody is offering you LESS for MORE  !  

 

It is a mini/midi format, about 30 cm /12 " largest dimension, but gets frequently demaged in transit, due to the fact it is incredibly heavy for such a minuscule size and people just do not get it it needs extraordinarily good packaging to survive the journey. 

 

In stock form, it will be unbearable and painful to listen with K1000 for anytthing like extended listening. Properly modified - that is another story altogether. It is still a bit too little voltage swing for K1000 for the loudest peaks like piano and percussion, but absolutely sublime for anything that requires a bit more normal volume(s). 

 

When compared to one of the smaller Tim de Paravicini's EAR tube amps, my SU-C04 won - by miles, no contest. On speakers that are satisfied with about 30 W - or K 1000.

 

At the moment, I am not prepared/interested in becoming a Member of the Trade and offering SU-C04 (and/or other ) modifications. Given enough demand, I might reconsider. I am not prepared to give away the knowledge/experience earned hard over many years as a DIY cookbook for free.

post #99 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by grokit View Post

To me the K1000 is kind of the predecessor to the HE6, they have similar driving requirements and not so similar but still speaker-like presentations. They're also obviously very different, but they are the only two real earspeakers that I know of. The HE6 takes the dynamic impact and bass extension up a notch or three, but the K1000's adjustable soundstage and natural crossfeed kind of make up for that.

Well said. HE-6 is a headphone - very good one ( that I have not yet had the pleasure to audition ), but still a conventional headphone requiring earpads.

 

The original ear-speaker that defined the term was Jecklin Float Electrostatic  from early 70s- by hrklg01 own admission a benchmark used when designing the K 1000.

 

On speculation, Float might end up sounding somewhere in between the K1000 and HE-6 - it does allow for natural crosstalk and has more bass than K1000 all things considered. K1000 varies the amount of bass it can sustain according to how much you open the "wings" - it is a compromise you can adjust to your own taste/requirements as well as requirements of the music being played. In that it is unique and therefore more versatile. 

 

But if you are a fan of Marcus Miller , the famous jazz electric bass player, then  HE-6 is the way to go.

post #100 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by complin View Post

The SAC although made originally for the AKG K1000 is reputedly a very mediocre performer.

I have tried the RKV which is fairly respectable but has relatively limited power and voltage swing. There is also the Eartube which offers an alternative.

 

I believe the AKG K1000's need at least an 8 to 10 watt amplifier, but as most speaker amps are designed for 4-16 ohm loads, the actual power delivered can be fairly miniscule!  Some amplifiers can become unstable too at very low or very high impedance so its important to understand how they will react with such loads.

   

I'm surprised about your comments regarding the EAR Yoshino as I use the V20 with my K1000's without problems

There are other amplifiers that were made specifically for the K1000's like the Antique Sound Lab and nOhr SE9

 

Reputedly one of the best amplifiers for the K1000's is the Nelson Pass FirstWatt F1 current source amplifier or the updated version F1J

 

 

You point out quite correctly K1000 is an awkward load at 120 ohms. Quite few big speaker amps I tried with it were simply unstable with such a load.

Normal headphone amps have nowhere near enough voltage swing. 

 

I have a kit for RKV lying around for years - trouble is, when one wants absolutely nothing but the best, cost ( and SIZE ) of the capacitors have discouraged me time and time again from completing it. Maybe one day...

 

I have great respect for anything from Nelson Pass, ever since I heard a DIY built Pass A40 in late 70s/early 80s.  But I was not so impressed by one of the preamps from about 10 or so years ago - the cost cutting policy caught up and it unfortunately shows up in sound too. Hope FirstWatt F1 got away from cost cutters soon enough.

 

I am not familiar with Antique Sound Lab or nOhr SE9 - never even heard of them.

 

I will check with the friend who has the EAR mentioned for the exact type designation and will report back. It is not EAR was "bad" - it was quite good actually.  Simply, SU-C04 on steroids was that much better, particularly regarding sheer believability of music actually happening in your own room ( or between your ears ... depending on speaker / ear-speaker use)  - as unbelievable and unlikely as it may seem.

post #101 of 198

I tried a few amps as well and the best out of group was Zanden 7000 300B integrated, with his 8W p.ch. he was nothing but fantastic.

post #102 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackmore View Post

I tried a few amps as well and the best out of group was Zanden 7000 300B integrated, with his 8W p.ch. he was nothing but fantastic.

Any Zanden I had a privilege to hear yet was a treat - unfortunately, representative for our country, Mr. Franc Kuzma, world reknowned turntable designer/builder, does not allow to bring other competitive products to be auditioned alongside equipment he has on demonstration.  

 

Never heard this one. "Zanden" and "300B", taken together, should sound great. 

post #103 of 198
Quote:

BTW - LOVE your headband arches shape modification - for larger heads, original can be something Inquisition might have been using in order for you to "confess" !

 

Did you try it?

post #104 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piotr Ryka View Post

 

Did you try it?

No - but it is the easiest solution with the original frame for large(r) head(s)  - then K1000 is no longer useable with small(er) head(s).  As a recording engineer, I use K 1000 to demonstrate the quality of my recordings to the conductors/musicians/producers, lots of whom are women and too large frames would be a poor fit for them.

 

Currently working on a solution that would satisfy sonic reasons as well as accomodate very broad head size spectrum - from children to Mega Heads

( one of my friends has a head so large stock K1000 protrudes like 10 cm (!) away from each ear in the most closed position of the wings - no doubt he never was able to hear K 1000 to date ! ) .

post #105 of 198

I must say, that Croft is outstanding power amplifier. Grand piano in its creation with K1000 and deeply modified ASL Twin-Head is the best I've ever heard, better than with Orpheus or Stax 009. So I don’t searching anything else, although First Watt F1 is very interesting alternative. Such alternative is not AKG K701, which I don’t like. They are good with both Leben's amplifiers, but far, far away behind my K1000 setup.

Next month I will be able at last try Ancient Audio Grand Silver Mono, which I know with speakers, and question – is this distortion problem attached with my setup or K1000 itself – will be probably solve. 

 

 

 

1000


Edited by Piotr Ryka - 11/2/12 at 6:35am
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