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History of the AKG K1000? - Page 17

post #241 of 254


Yes  - mainly to studios and musicians. They users had to have their ears measured and that data was used for the BAP 1000 (Data on ROM-Card).

The K1000 came with a wooden box with serial number and certificate. 

There was also a class A headphone amp for extra power back then.


Edited by joeexp - 4/15/15 at 8:51am
post #242 of 254
@analogsurviver
I do not know about such sales packages because I left AkG already end 1989
Sorry about that...
post #243 of 254
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeexp View Post
 


Yes  - mainly to studios and musicians. They users had to have their ears measured and that data was used for the BAP 1000.

The K1000 came with a wooden box with serial number and certificate.

Thank you for the answer - I have heard such rumours, but had no confirmation so far.

 

Tomorrow I get to see and hear such combo, that is why I asked. 

post #244 of 254
Quote:
Originally Posted by hrklg01 View Post

@analogsurviver
I do not know about such sales packages because I left AkG already end 1989
Sorry about that...

@hrklg01 : runmor has it that these pairings with BAP 1000 were the very first production run - that is why I thought to ask you first.

post #245 of 254


My friend Ernest was in charge of the software development for the BAP1000. I had my ears measured at AKG back then. They put you on a swivel chair with tiny microphones in your ear, measuring the characteristics of the ear with regards to orientation. The offered that service to musicians. So some AKG guy got sent measuring with his measuring kit around the world. So this obviously only makes sense if you sell the set. The Scorpions (German Rock Band known for "Wind of Change") had a set. They used it as "portable Studio" when they were on tour...


Edited by joeexp - 4/15/15 at 9:18am
post #246 of 254
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeexp View Post
 


My friend Ernest was in charge of the software development for the BAP1000. I had my ears measured at AKG back then. They put you on a swivel chair with tiny microphones in your ear, measuring the characteristics of the ear with regards to orientation. The offered that service to musicians. So some AKG guy got sent measuring with his measuring kit around the world. So this obviously only makes sense if you sell the set. The Scorpions (German Rock Band known for "Wind of Change") had a set. They used it as "portable Studio" when they were on tour...

I spent practically whole day yesterday with BAP-1000. First, in the morning, to select as diverse as possible binaural DSD recordings of my own from the hard disk to Korg MR-1000 DSD recorder, then listening to these on the BAP1000/K1000 at friend's, who had to decide whether or not to purchase the combo - and I brought another K-1000 , owned by my friend who produces most of my recordings and were modified by me, for reference I know really well.

 

At first, from the cold start, BAP1000 sounded - horrible. Thin, grey, grainy - everything one does not want. A quick comparison with iFi Audio iDSD micro left no doubt as to which one is better amplifier , used in straight mode, without any alterations to the input signal. It was iFi micro that clearly had the upper hand.

 

Then friend and me concentrated on listening to the headphones themselves. If someone still thinks bass heavy and bass light AKG K-1000s are a myth, I can attest it is NOT so. "To be bought or not to be bought" candidate was decidedly thin and without response in the lower octaves - compared to a  bass heavy sample that was further modified in order to bring the best out of this design.

 

This swapping of headphones and direct comparison of both amps went on for about half an hour - and we always swapped so that whatever the headphones listened to, we were always listening to the same combination of ( AMP+headphone). As it got tiresome ( and wire tangling...) experience, at one point we simply swapped the headphones - and the amps driving them.  And, although not surprisingly to me, the at first horrible sounding BAP-1000 did put itself together to something listenable - the difference was obviously becoming less and less. 

 

And that finally allowed for the functions of the processor to be tried. And, yes, as good as K-1000 is in soundstage department, it can be significantly improved by the judicious use of BAP-1000. I can atest to that, as all the music being listened has been recorded by myself and know how it should sound. The best feature that the music no longer plays "in the head" or is "stretched from left to right, way beyond the width of the head" - to something that very much resembles music heard live - on the stage in front of you. With my binaural or Jecklin disk recordings, the "filter" that produced the best response was number 8. I know there is option "Card" - for individual calibration - but that was understandably not available yesterday. If I owned BAP-1000, I would definitely have my ears measured - period.

 

All you wrote above holds true. Specially that "portable studio" bit. All that is needed is a QUIET room. Luxury that is usually not available when doing recording on location - which in practice means driving the musicians out, so that conductor/player/singer/producer can listen during microphone setup - which is not particularly gentle on the musicians, if that means driving them out to the snow, in an already cold church - for example. But people just can not seat in total silence for some 10-15 minutes until conductor/musician/singer/producer can listen to agree on the best microphone setup - K-1000 blocks absolutely no outside noise and even the quietest of whisper can tip the balance in favour of an otherwise inferiour mic setup.

 

During this write-up, the happy new owner of BAP/K-1000 called me on the phone - raving how much better it got still after yet another of some 5 or so hours of being powered up. I will occasionally chime in how things will progress from now on.

post #247 of 254

I can confirm that AKG had two version of Drivers for the K1000. One version with a bit more bass [+3db if I remember right].

So no myth. Also as I said before AKG used to sell a class A Headphone amp to go with the K1000. Turns out the guys that used to produce them for AKG, are still around and are still selling them - without the AKG branding obviously. 

http://www.sac.de/sac/start_frame.php?Pfad=2_165_79&BL=2

 

Just under 800 Euro seems a fair price to get the best out of your K1000s.


Edited by joeexp - 4/17/15 at 4:48am
post #248 of 254
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeexp View Post
 

I can confirm that AKG had two version of Drivers for the K1000. One version with a bit more bass [+3db if I remember right].

So no myth. Also as I said before AKG used to sell a class A Headphone amp to go with the K1000. Turns out the guys you used to produce them for AKG, are still around and are still selling them - without the AKG branding obviously. 

http://www.sac.de/sac/start_frame.php?Pfad=2_165_79&BL=2

 

Just under 800 Euro seems a fair price to get the best out of your K1000s.

I am aware SAC amp is similar/same to the amp section of BAP-1000.

 

It lacks processing of the BAP-1000 - like any other amp.

 

I did not mention the use of my modified Technics SU-C04 amplifier used during the session - for the reasons of clarity, because it is not known to other members. It had an edge over BAP-1000 and/or iFi Audio iDSD micro when used as a straight amp for the K-1000.  

post #249 of 254
Quote:
Originally Posted by analogsurviver View Post
 

I am aware SAC amp is similar/same to the amp section of BAP-1000.

 

It lacks processing of the BAP-1000 - like any other amp.

 

I did not mention the use of my modified Technics SU-C04 amplifier used during the session - for the reasons of clarity, because it is not known to other members. It had an edge over BAP-1000 and/or iFi Audio iDSD micro when used as a straight amp for the K-1000.  


The SAC amp is not the same as the one used for the amp-section of the BAP-1000. It was meant to improve the sound of the BAP as the built-in one is a bit on the weak side.


Edited by joeexp - 4/17/15 at 4:53am
post #250 of 254
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeexp View Post
 


The SAC amp is not the same as the one used for the amp-section of the BAP-1000. It was meant to improve the sound of the BAP as the built-in one is a bit on the weak side.

Nice to know. 

 

I should have mentioned that on most of my non-compressed recordings, BAP-1000 had to be turned to full gas - only few less dynamic/quiet music left any headroom.

post #251 of 254

Hi,

Sorry, I do not know much about the BAP 1000, because I was away from AKG at that time already when it was develeoped.

However, I do not like the amplifier built in at all....

My way to listen with the K1000 is to use the BAP 1000 with all it's build in filters adopted to human ears (including the own one on stored on the card), but to use behind the BAP 1000 another good AMP where usually speakers are connected.

In my case I use an old Luxman M-03.

To me this combination is really great...

BR heinz

post #252 of 254
Quote:
Originally Posted by hrklg01 View Post
 

Hi,

Sorry, I do not know much about the BAP 1000, because I was away from AKG at that time already when it was develeoped.

However, I do not like the amplifier built in at all....

My way to listen with the K1000 is to use the BAP 1000 with all it's build in filters adopted to human ears (including the own one on stored on the card), but to use behind the BAP 1000 another good AMP where usually speakers are connected.

In my case I use an old Luxman M-03.

To me this combination is really great...

BR heinz

Interesting.

 

As noted, in my time limited experience, BAP 1000 - amp section - benefits tremendously from warming up (or was it burning in again, it was used very sporadically and for short time(s), in a studio; only to check the final master ). 

 

I will re-check for this in due time - the difference "from the cold" was so big my friend has already been considering not buying the combo at all - when "some" mid old Sennheisers almost chopped the BAP/K-1000 in two - when driven from my version of Technics SU-C04 amp. 12 or so hours later, it was a completely different story - BAP came to life.

 

Does anyone have schematics for the BAP-1000, at least amp section ? Internet is, like always in really interesting cases, deaf and blind. It would help a great deal, as it may reveal if any of the electric components used, known to behave like that ( capacitor blues...), are used in BAP-1000 - prior to opening it up . If I have to learn Swahili, even rudimentary - in order to get this schematics - so be it...

post #253 of 254
Quote:
Originally Posted by analogsurviver View Post
 

I am aware SAC amp is similar/same to the amp section of BAP-1000.

 

It lacks processing of the BAP-1000 - like any other amp.

 

I did not mention the use of my modified Technics SU-C04 amplifier used during the session - for the reasons of clarity, because it is not known to other members. It had an edge over BAP-1000 and/or iFi Audio iDSD micro when used as a straight amp for the K-1000.  


As far as I remember when the AKG forum was still active even some guy Karl from AKG, who I suppose was some sound engineer or amp developer, strongly advised not to use the amp section of the BAP-1000 because it's very simple in terms of schematics and doesn't fit the K1000. He said that SAC K1000 is much better and more advanced and some speakers amp are even better than that.

post #254 of 254
Quote:
Originally Posted by qazxsw80 View Post
 


As far as I remember when the AKG forum was still active even some guy Karl from AKG, who I suppose was some sound engineer or amp developer, strongly advised not to use the amp section of the BAP-1000 because it's very simple in terms of schematics and doesn't fit the K1000. He said that SAC K1000 is much better and more advanced and some speakers amp are even better than that.

I know that. My modified Technics SU-C04 (one of the best sounding amps out there, regardless of cost - or size...) exceeds the output section of BAP-1000 - no contest.

 

I did not have the time to compare BAP-1000 used as a processor only - driving another amp. But since I found the processing of the BAP-1000 to be absolutely unavoidable for proper performance, the point is moot - I would like to have BAP-1000 regardless if it has an inbuilt amp or not. I merely reported how BAP-1000 performed in my experience.

 

To be continued...

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