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History of the AKG K1000? - Page 9

post #121 of 200

Those plots above were measured by the same person from Russia and artificial ear and head are also the same. Just a little different look. Here another orthodynamic headphones LCD2.

There is some plots from Japan:

post #122 of 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by hrklg01 View Post

About the frequency responses:

Thank you for that plots in comparison.

But as I understand that, it must be either a much different measuring setup f.i. the artificial ear or other points or a really poor manufactured K1000 driver....

During our development time, the upper slope down started at 23kHz and the lower slope at 35Hz.

Would be nice to measure first Gen K1000 again! :-)

Well, manufacturers do use the clause "subject to alterations without notice" - not always for the better performance, sometimes for the simplification and improving cost-effectiveness of the actual commercially available production. It might have been the case with K1000 - at least first gen had fundamental resonance appreciably lower than later version(s); slightly thicker/heavier/easier to manufacture diaphragm with not so extended highs for subsequent generation(s) too perhaps?

 

My pair is 03570 - is it still first gen ?

post #123 of 200

Thank you for your inuts.

I know just, that the "first gen" was planned for 10k pcs. At least for these first series I guess that the frequency response should be much more linear.

post #124 of 200
Mine is number 10168, I feel left out frown.gif
post #125 of 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by grokit View Post

Mine is number 10168, I feel left out frown.gif

 

Haha! Most of us don't even have a pair, no matter how badly we want one. We all feel left out! 

post #126 of 200

Sorry that some of you feel "left out"...  :-(

 

However, at least for the high frequency response of the K1000 driver I can suggest a kind of "repair method".

 

Honestly, this is not really a repair method - it is the orginial method how we managed from the beginning that the driver works very linear till 23kHz without any "break off modes" of the membrane.

 

This method is of course nothing for people which cannot open the K1000 without distroying parts.

 

But basically it's a simple method or "repair process":

 

1) Buy or get somewhere a small piece of shellac ... this is this tree resin which was used in the past to spread the violin bow.

2) Dissolve the shellac in spiritus (methylated spirits) just that much that you get a viscous solution - not too visocous, just like a cooking oil.

3) Use a small brush to coat the membrane dome area above the coil. about 5mm to the centre of the dome is enaough.

4) Let the whole dry for 10 hours minimum.

5) Reassemble the K1000

 

If you did nothing wrong - the K1000 will perform at the high frequencies as it was designed to do.

 

BR heinz

 

PS: Really only for technically skilled people without any warranty!

post #127 of 200
Bookmarked, thanks! There is nothing wrong with the high frequencies of my unit I can tell. They have a high serial number but they sound great!
post #128 of 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by hrklg01 View Post

1) Buy or get somewhere a small piece of shellac ... this is this tree resin which was used in the past to spread the violin bow.

2) Dissolve the shellac in spiritus (methylated spirits) just that much that you get a viscous solution - not too visocous, just like a cooking oil.

3) Use a small brush to coat the membrane dome area above the coil. about 5mm to the centre of the dome is enaough.

....

 

Hahahaha!  No way I'm doing that to something they don't make anymore.  I don't think I even want to re-cable mine!  I enjoy them as they are.  Good or bad, there is still nothing that sounds like them out there.  duggehsmile.png <<< (they really should have a K1000 smiley)

post #129 of 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mkubota1 View Post

 

Hahahaha!  No way I'm doing that to something they don't make anymore.  I don't think I even want to re-cable mine!  I enjoy them as they are.  Good or bad, there is still nothing that sounds like them out there.  duggehsmile.png <<< (they really should have a K1000 smiley)

+1 on nothing that sounds like K1000 !

 

+1 on K1000 smiley - can someone with more cyber knowledge PLEASE  create one ?!?

 

Well, I can certainly understand your reservation regarding doing anything to K1000. It is not that unapproachable/delicate, but it is a genuine PITA to work with and one can send it to Eternal Hounting Grounds quite easily, with a single wrong move. Contrary to superbly exhorbitant pricing for K 1000 pads, I find AKG's prices for refurbishing/repair acceptable - FAR from cheap, but entirely justified given the exactness of the task and time required to make it right.

 

Anything you consider doing - there is something that should not be attempted to be done under ANY circumstances unless really absolutely unavoidable ( only case : open coil of a driver - FORGET about anything else ) - DO NOT (UN)SOLDER THIN WIRE(S) COMING FROM THE DRIVER COIL TO THE TWO "STEMS".

The wire of the driver is made of "hrklg01 might answer which (combination(s) of ) material(s)"  - and it is next to impossible to solder back - it either won't  stick  to the "stem" or the thin wire would melt, There is extremely low temperature range where it both makes bond and does not melt - if you do not have high quality soldering equipment - STAY WELL CLEAR. Please do not answer for the correct soldering temperature - I did menage to get it right eventually, but it was anything but soldering as they teach in some government assisted programme for military/medicine equipment, if you get my drift. I was simply happy that it conducts and does not come off or breaks at the joint - for over two years now. Knock - knock on wood ...

 

Compared to this soldering with guesstimate temperature, the shellac high frequency extension mod looks like a child's play - all you need , after you dissolved the shellac into some nice thin solution, is a quality soft brush and steady hand(s).  It will dry in any case, under any normal conditions - if you are too chicken about it, perhaps you can try several very diluted coatings, that should ascertain the actual shellac layer is more uniform. How much/how many - well, you might as well try to force that one out of some violin builder ... everybody has his/hers own secret recipe !

post #130 of 200

I find the idea of making a shellac resin coating for the film interesting, but am also not willing to risk my K1000s to do it.  :)  I also have a low-numbered pair, so that goes double.

 

I have tried the K1000 with the SAC-1000 amp and was not that impressed.  They sound better to me off the speaker taps from my Marantz 2220.  Plenty of voltage in the vintage gear, cheaper than the SAC, and has a phono stage built in... yay!

post #131 of 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lou Erickson View Post

I find the idea of making a shellac resin coating for the film interesting, but am also not willing to risk my K1000s to do it.  :)  I also have a low-numbered pair, so that goes double.

 

I have tried the K1000 with the SAC-1000 amp and was not that impressed.  They sound better to me off the speaker taps from my Marantz 2220.  Plenty of voltage in the vintage gear, cheaper than the SAC, and has a phono stage built in... yay!

Well, shellac resin coating is for later built higher numbered samples. I would worry only in case K1000  display lack of high frequency extension - most unlikely in low numbered pair.

 

Never tried the SAC-1000 amp. Tried many vintage gear - most will work, but some amps just do not like the 120 ohm load and can be prone to instability; the one that is terrific with almost any reasonable speaker and falls to pieces with K1000 is Technics SU-V9 integrated amp. It works great with Technics SE-A5 power amp.

 

When it comes to sheer SQ, nothing so far could touch my modification of the Technics SU-C04 integrated amp.

 

 http://audio-heritage.jp/TECHNICS/amp/su-c04.html

 

It is entirely discretely built, only phono has IC ( and is generally below the extraordinary quality of everything else in SU-C04 , RIAA is not as precise as is customary for better Technics offerings ). If its 30 W/ch in not less than 6 ohm suffice, capable of giving a bloody nose to almost anything - will hold its own against anything regardless of price. As they say, poison does come in small bottles ... 

post #132 of 200
What do you think about a Kickstarter project for something like a k2k? Those numbers seem pretty achievable.
post #133 of 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by schawo View Post

What do you think about a Kickstarter project for something like a k2k? Those numbers seem pretty achievable.

 

I doubt you'd get the funding. You'd need a lot of it, and audiophiles are and few between

post #134 of 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by schawo View Post

What do you think about a Kickstarter project for something like a k2k? Those numbers seem pretty achievable.

Difficult to say. Suppose K2K turned out "perfect" - most, even seasoned high end audiophilles, would probably still not "get it" what the hell it is all the fuss about.

Lack of recordings good enough to clearly show K1000 concept/design is indeed superiour does not help either. 

 

On the other hand, nothing would please me more than proving the above statement wrong. hkrlg01 mentioned something like 30.000 pcs as target for which a succesor of K1000 would get a serious consideration of getting a go-ahead, provided proper funding was available. I believe 30 thousand is overly optimistic - but if enough of actual customers willng to buy this succesor would comit to the cause by downpayment of say 500 EUR to The Three Musketeers with a guarantee to receive the finished product in say 2 years ( after paying whatever reasonable balance due, of course) ,  that number required to break even and bring K2K in existance may well be much lower.

 

I am listening to the recording I made yesterday as I type this - of mixed choir with 3 percussionists in a church, with organ joining in for the finale, Cantata after St. Elizabeth, about 5 years old work by composer Andrej Misson. Binaural natural - as I call this technique - mikes on my own head/ears. You most definitely WERE where the mikes were at the live musical event, you heard the real thing. Playing back on K1000 is NOT perfect - particularly front to back positioning could have been improved upon - but, with proper opening of the "wings",  it is considerably more real sounding than any other can requiring earpads.

 

To borrow / paraphrase known commercial line - priceless, for everything else there is (Master)card.

post #135 of 200

Hello to All and especially to Analogsurviver,

 

Of course it's very attractive for an old headphone designer like me to create a K2K based on latest technology.

 

On the other hand, I pesonally hate to much risk.

Risk for me are not so much in commercial terms, because I really know how to manage proper those approach.

The main risk would be to get the right acoustic setup for most of you audiophil people, so that you would be finally really satisfied and really willing to buy such a product for a premium.

The idea of paying a kind of deposit for all interested one which would be payed back of course, sound basically a quite simple model for the development investment. But how to judge the final product and not at least to fix the target ...?

F.I. and as you know, those effects like spatial (three dimensionality) listening are still not measurable... Also human has different audiophil tast (f.i. In the U. States, England and Germany those tastes are really quite different)....

 

To build different K2K versions would be of course also possible, but again how to judge which one should be finally build...?

 

Any idea of you great formum?

 

BR heinz

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