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History of the AKG K1000? - Page 8

post #106 of 218
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piotr Ryka View Post

I must say, that Croft is outstanding power amplifier. Grand piano in its creation with K1000 and deeply modified ASL Twin-Head is the best I've ever heard, better than with Orpheus or Stax 009. So I don’t searching anything else, although First Watt F1 is very interesting alternative. Such alternative is not AKG K701, which I don’t like. They are good with both Leben's amplifiers, but far, far away behind my K1000 setup.

Next month I will be able at last try Ancient Audio Grand Silver Mono, which I know with speakers, and question – is this distortion problem attached with my setup or K1000 itself – will be probably solve. 

 

 

 

1000

+1 on K701.

 

Let us know what develops. I find this very interesting.

 

I have never heard either Orpheus or 009 ( any Stax below that, Jecklin ES, etc etc ), but from your descriptions I understand you must have very acute hearing and understand why you prefer dynamic K1000 to the (best?)  electrostatics on piano - and why you listen to K1000 without the inner grills. Are you a pianist, producer, recording engineer or  "just " a piano lover ?

 

Still, I would strongly suggest to measure the Croft (or any other amp ) for clipping as I have described; peaks register far above what we perceive as loudness, in piano music it is the high notes that go far above average levels and can sound as you have described with clipping. If you find any example of piano that causes this on youtube, please post it.

I know that sound quality on youtube is what it is ( always remember not to forget to set the highest resolution available) , but there are decent sounding recordings of piano to be found:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-Swxz9QctU

 

Is the comment for this video by fredericfranc really true for Polish conditions ? I have recorded the same piece in one of our churches 4 years ago - and it seemed like the most

appropriate thing to do, acoustics were just about perfect.

post #107 of 218
Quote:
Originally Posted by analogsurviver View Post

+1 on K701.

 

Let us know what develops. I find this very interesting.

 

I have never heard either Orpheus or 009 ( any Stax below that, Jecklin ES, etc etc ), but from your descriptions I understand you must have very acute hearing and understand why you prefer dynamic K1000 to the (best?)  electrostatics on piano - and why you listen to K1000 without the inner grills. Are you a pianist, producer, recording engineer or  "just " a piano lover ?

 

Still, I would strongly suggest to measure the Croft (or any other amp ) for clipping as I have described; peaks register far above what we perceive as loudness, in piano music it is the high notes that go far above average levels and can sound as you have described with clipping. If you find any example of piano that causes this on youtube, please post it.

I know that sound quality on youtube is what it is ( always remember not to forget to set the highest resolution available) , but there are decent sounding recordings of piano to be found:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-Swxz9QctU

 

Is the comment for this video by fredericfranc really true for Polish conditions ? I have recorded the same piece in one of our churches 4 years ago - and it seemed like the most

appropriate thing to do, acoustics were just about perfect.

 

 

 

I don't know if my hearing is acute, but maybe is.smile.gif  I'm not an professional musician, only an audio stuff reviewer.

 

This Prokofiew pieces I can replay with Burson headphone amplifier and Sennheiser HD 800, which are very well fit to it. Unfortunately my normal computer sound card – Asus Xonar Essence STX – is on repair trip this week and I have only Sound Blaster Fatality. But I think I know what you mean by "cleeping", however this is not the same what I've described.  

 

Polish conditions are not like this idiot fredericfranc have wrote of course. It is the same kind of statement, like that we are here in Poland white bears and Siberian tigers on the streets.

 

Why I use K1000 without inner grills? Well, that is some kind of caprice. I don’t want to have anything between driver and ear.    

 

Why I prefer my K1000 over Orpheus, SR-009 and SR-Omega? I must say, that Orpheus grand piano performances are outstanding too, but more smooth. Slightly too smooth to me. I like to feel some "down" on sound, some "rough" on it. - I like to have sculpt texture. On the other hand Sony MDR-10 grand piano performances are more refined than K1000 ones, but slightly too delicate. Too without punch.

 

I promise to measure the Croft. 

post #108 of 218
Quote:
Originally Posted by grokit View Post

To me the K1000 is kind of the predecessor to the HE6, they have similar driving requirements and not so similar but still speaker-like presentations. They're also obviously very different, but they are the only two real earspeakers that I know of. The HE6 takes the dynamic impact and bass extension up a notch or three, but the K1000's adjustable soundstage and natural crossfeed kind of make up for that.

 

Right.

post #109 of 218
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piotr Ryka View Post

 

 

 

I don't know if my hearing is acute, but maybe is.smile.gif  I'm not an professional musician, only an audio stuff reviewer.

 

This Prokofiew pieces I can replay with Burson headphone amplifier and Sennheiser HD 800, which are very well fit to it. Unfortunately my normal computer sound card – Asus Xonar Essence STX – is on repair trip this week and I have only Sound Blaster Fatality. But I think I know what you mean by "cleeping", however this is not the same what I've described.  

 

Polish conditions are not like this idiot fredericfranc have wrote of course. It is the same kind of statement, like that we are here in Poland white bears and Siberian tigers on the streets.

 

Why I use K1000 without inner grills? Well, that is some kind of caprice. I don’t want to have anything between driver and ear.    

 

Why I prefer my K1000 over Orpheus, SR-009 and SR-Omega? I must say, that Orpheus grand piano performances are outstanding too, but more smooth. Slightly too smooth to me. I like to feel some "down" on sound, some "rough" on it. - I like to have sculpt texture. On the other hand Sony MDR-10 grand piano performances are more refined than K1000 ones, but slightly too delicate. Too without punch.

 

I promise to measure the Croft. 

Well, since we both are not native English speakers, clarification regarding "cleeping" is in order: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clipping_(audio). I can read/guess what a text in Polish is trying to say, but my writing in Polish would probably sent one audio stuff reviewer to Eternal Hounting Grounds - you would probably lough yourself to death...!

 

No white  bears and Siberian tigers on the streets and the possibility to record a piano recital in church in Poland without getting crucified upside down sounds nice too!

 

Kidding aside, I understood what are you trying to say regarding sound of Orpheus and MDR10 ( both never heard ) in comparision with K1000. It is in the lyrics from 2:15 through 2:22 : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H38Qk0V2tl4

 

Do you like Asus Xonar Essence STX? I tried Asus Xonar Essence One - and was mighty glad I could get rid of it within a week with no financial loss about a year ago. Hope STX version  is better.

 

How do HD 800 (also a never-heard, but a friend has it and we will arrange a listen in near future ) stack up against K 1000 ?

post #110 of 218

T21TX6XX8dXXXXXXXX_%21%2134582996.jpg

 

RISK OF ELECTRIC SHOOK
DO NOT OPER

 

 

Doesn't inspire confidence.......

post #111 of 218
Quote:
Originally Posted by analogsurviver View Post

Well, since we both are not native English speakers, clarification regarding "cleeping" is in order: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clipping_(audio). I can read/guess what a text in Polish is trying to say, but my writing in Polish would probably sent one audio stuff reviewer to Eternal Hounting Grounds - you would probably lough yourself to death...!

 

No white  bears and Siberian tigers on the streets and the possibility to record a piano recital in church in Poland without getting crucified upside down sounds nice too!

 

Kidding aside, I understood what are you trying to say regarding sound of Orpheus and MDR10 ( both never heard ) in comparision with K1000. It is in the lyrics from 2:15 through 2:22 : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H38Qk0V2tl4

 

Do you like Asus Xonar Essence STX? I tried Asus Xonar Essence One - and was mighty glad I could get rid of it within a week with no financial loss about a year ago. Hope STX version  is better.

 

How do HD 800 (also a never-heard, but a friend has it and we will arrange a listen in near future ) stack up against K 1000 ?

 

 

This "cleeping" could be some explanation, but I don’t know why sometimes (rarely) this cleeping appears, sometimes not. For example last tree days were completely free of this phenomenon.

I use Xonar only as a source for amplifier. (Good amplifier.) The sound is slightly raw, but high notes are good illuminated.

HD 800 vs K1000? That is a long story (in Polish). Generally HD 800 are more mild and boring. But with really good source, like top Metronome for example, and with appropriate amplifier, they are very interesting, particularly for old recordings. K1000 are more aggressive, with better highs extension and more realistic sound. With proper system their presentation is simply more beautiful.     

To me, in audiophiles dialect, headphone top tier is: Orpheus, SR-Omega, SR-009, Omega II mk1, Sony MDR-R10, HiFiMAN HE-6 and AKG K1000. (I've never heard Audez'e LCD-3 and Sony Qualia).  


Edited by Piotr Ryka - 11/3/12 at 5:35am
post #112 of 218
Quote:
Originally Posted by wink View Post

T21TX6XX8dXXXXXXXX_%21%2134582996.jpg

 

RISK OF ELECTRIC SHOOK
DO NOT OPER

 

 

Doesn't inspire confidence.......

Each and every manufacturer print similar on their rear sides; first because of the actual danger of high(er) voltage(s) that could actually lead to shock or even death of the layman messing with electricity; second, to deter user to service the unit themselves but bring it to service repair shop and third, to deter modifying as much as they possibly can. Just look at the back plate on any of your "boxes" ...

 

I agree that OPER  does not inspire confidence - but please remember it can be a typo and that non native english speakers , myself included, are more prone to mistakes like these. If they can't get something as simple as that right, what else might be wrong... - but it as much chance there is absolutely nothing other than this unfortunate R wrong with the unit. Disclaimer: I have no connection to the manufacturer in question, just posted something thought K1000 owners on tighter budget might be interested in.

 

On the other hand, Space Shuttles have been known to disintegrate in mid air because superiours did not wish to enforce the costly measures they were informed about by their subordinated personell in time  in order to prevent it from happening altogether.

 

With the legal system in the US, there must be a clause in vehicle user manuals stating the driver must not leave his position behind the wheel while driving; allegedly, some guy driving a motorhome alone went to have a bath (!) in his ultra luxury motorhome while driving, and, naturally, crashed; Since there was no warning against this in user  manual, some clever lawyer got the suit and guy actually got quite a compensation for injuries sustained. Therefore, in  US,  manufacturer must provide himself any protection they possibly can come up with, failure to do so is being mercilessly (ab)used by US legal system. Starting with notices on the back of electronic equipment.

post #113 of 218

I got shooked when I saw that image.

post #114 of 218
Quote:
Originally Posted by arnaud View Post

I got shooked when I saw that image.

Sorry - missed the SHOOK part altogether - that is a bit too much, I would have to agree. Still, similar if lesser in degree "Engli****is" do appear on German, Japanese, Swiss etc non native english speaking manufacturers' equipment and accompanying literature.

 

It does not have to mean the equipment is equally flawed, but confidence inspiring it is definitely not !

post #115 of 218
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piotr Ryka View Post

 

 

This "cleeping" could be some explanation, but I don’t know why sometimes (rarely) this cleeping appears, sometimes not. For example last tree days were completely free of this phenomenon.

I use Xonar only as a source for amplifier. (Good amplifier.) The sound is slightly raw, but high notes are good illuminated.

HD 800 vs K1000? That is a long story (in Polish). Generally HD 800 are more mild and boring. But with really good source, like top Metronome for example, and with appropriate amplifier, they are very interesting, particularly for old recordings. K1000 are more aggressive, with better highs extension and more realistic sound. With proper system their presentation is simply more beautiful.     

To me, in audiophiles dialect, headphone top tier is: Orpheus, SR-Omega, SR-009, Omega II mk1, Sony MDR-R10, HiFiMAN HE-6 and AKG K1000. (I've never heard Audez'e LCD-3 and Sony Qualia).  

Thank you for the reply. 

 

Do you use analog or digital out from Xonar ? I found Xonar Essence One boring and non dynamic beyeond belief from its analog line out,. let alone through whole headphone amp. One of the most unpleasent surprises in my entire audio history.

 

Conspicious by its absence in your very carefully and well selected top tier list is Jecklin Float Electrostatic - ever tried it ?

post #116 of 218

Hi Grokit,

A predecessor in my understanding should use some similar driver features as the followe.

Please do not get me wrong, but the K1000 as a real free field driver without any strong disturbing parts in front or the rear of the driver, is something different as an orthodynamic driver. The main difference is the much more linear frequency response, the consequently flat phase response and the impulse response. Orthodynamic principles was of course one of our favorites during the design process of the K1000. But we scipped it finally because of the described disadvantages compared with the dynamic principle.

Br heinz renner

post #117 of 218
Quote:
Originally Posted by hrklg01 View Post

Hi Grokit,
A predecessor in my understanding should use some similar driver features as the followe.
Please do not get me wrong, but the K1000 as a real free field driver without any strong disturbing parts in front or the rear of the driver, is something different as an orthodynamic driver. The main difference is the much more linear frequency response, the consequently flat phase response and the impulse response. Orthodynamic principles was of course one of our favorites during the design process of the K1000. But we scipped it finally because of the described disadvantages compared with the dynamic principle.
Br heinz renner

Thanks for weighing in! On the one hand, I quite agree. The K1000 is unique in the world of headphones, always has been and always will be. Every time I come back to them, I wonder why I had any doubts. For certain musical genres they will always remain my favorite headphone.

But the fact remains that there seem to three different earspeaker-type headphones out there: the K1000, the HE6, and the Jecklin float. These three headphones all use different driving technologies, two of the three don't have earpads, and one of the three needs an electrostatic energizer.

Even so, while all three headphones are very different from each other, they also have their similarities. The main reason I put the K1000 together with the HE6 is because they have such similar driving requirements out of my speaker amp, there are no other headphones that I know of that need to be driven this way. The HE6 is also the only dynamic headphone I know of besides the K1000 to come with a 4-pin XLR termination, and is encouraged by the manufacturer to hook up to speaker terminals; the K1000 with the included speaker terminal adapter, and the HE6 with its optional HE adapter.

I've never had the chance to listen to a Float (only electrostatic so far is the Lambda Pro), but I do feel very fortunate to be able to experience both the K1000 and HE6!
beerchug.gif
Edited by grokit - 11/4/12 at 12:28pm
post #118 of 218
Quote:
The main difference is the much more linear frequency response, the consequently flat phase response and the impulse response.

It sounds pretty strange for me. I always thought that dynamic driver has the worst frequency response with a lot of peaks.Actually many people thinks that traditional dynamic transducer is the worst type. For example:

post #119 of 218
Quote:
Originally Posted by analogsurviver View Post

Thank you for the reply. 

 

Do you use analog or digital out from Xonar ? I found Xonar Essence One boring and non dynamic beyeond belief from its analog line out,. let alone through whole headphone amp. One of the most unpleasent surprises in my entire audio history.

 

Conspicious by its absence in your very carefully and well selected top tier list is Jecklin Float Electrostatic - ever tried it ?

 

 

I use Xonar via analog with such headphone amplifier

 

 

 

1000

 

 

Unfortunately I've never heard any Jacklin Float headphones.

post #120 of 218

About the frequency responses:

Thank you for that plots in comparison.

But as I understand that, it must be either a much different measuring setup f.i. the artificial ear or other points or a really poor manufactured K1000 driver....

During our development time, the upper slope down started at 23kHz and the lower slope at 35Hz.

Would be nice to measure first Gen K1000 again! :-)

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