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Akg K-702 - Amped vs Unamped : Can't hear much of a difference? - Page 3

post #31 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeaj View Post


Wallet control.  wink.gif

 

Possibly more damping factor and less ringing from borderline oscillation, less distortion / no clipping if cranking up the volume?  This is if "expensive" is taken to mean "better" in the traditional high-fidelity sense.  It's hard to guess what other people hear.



Ha ha, that's it.tongue_smile.gif  Seriously though, it's basically giving the headphone the ability to show the listener what it can really do.  Though, that doesn't mean one needs to spend an arm and a leg to get it either.  Excellent affordable amps like the Matrix M-stage or the O2, can give the user a very similar effect.


Edited by Digital-Pride - 10/31/11 at 10:28am
post #32 of 86

Keep in mind that one camp believes that given a modicum of power and no gross impedance mis-match, all amps sound the same regardless of topology.  There are also those that find that every component possesses a different sound signature.

 

Rather than argue belief structures, spend some time listening.  If you do not hear a difference, don't spend the money.  If you do, decide whether the difference you perceive is worth the money.  No one can answer these questions for you.

post #33 of 86
^ the only way out of these silly arguments.
post #34 of 86

Hello Senjy,

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by senjy View Post

 Well, talk about placebo.

 

 

Pacebo, that is exactly the thing in over 90% of cases when it comes to electronic, DACs or cables. I am into audio for more than 25 years and my scepticism about big differrences in electronic (expecially DACs) increases more and more (perhaps it is reciprog proportional with my age dependent hearing loss).

I have done AB comparisons with CD players, covering a huge price range from 80 to 6000 Euros and i am hearing no difference in the range between 400 and 6000 Euros (namely Burmester 006, Creek CD53 special edition and a NAD 5XX).

I think the most important item of an audio set up is the sound transducer (speaker in combination with room! or headphones). If an amplifier is electrically appropriate in terms of power etc. the differences in sound might be small.

So i can retrace your experience with your headamp and your dissapointment 

 

Frege

post #35 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frege View Post

 

. . .  my scepticism about big differrences in electronic (expecially DACs) increases more and more (perhaps it is reciprog proportional with my age dependent hearing loss)

biggrin.gif

 

It would be wonderful to experience the hearing of a five year-old. 

post #36 of 86

Unless your headphones are under powered I don't understand how an overly powerful/expensive amp is going to help "reach it's full potential." I can't see a hybrid amp having more "control" than a good SS amp either.

 

Oh well I haven't tried the K 701's, only the K 601's, but they didn't really benefit from amping at all. 

 

post #37 of 86

I still dont get people trying to use the AKGs from a DAP, regardless of whether or not its 'possible'. I'm pretty confident that AKG envisaged that these cans would be hooked up to decent sources, whatever crap marketing may have been laid over the top by the beancounters upstairs in Harmon Clown Corp.

post #38 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by Digital-Pride View Post



Head Injury, powerful headphone amps like Hifiman's EF-5 or Burson's HA-160, are not just about power output, but about the absolute control these amp exert over said headphone drivers that result in things like improved detail extraction, sound stage depth and imaging, bass extension and control and overall sound refinement.  It's headphone amps like these that enable the higher end headphones to really show what they're capable of.  Yes, the power output is a bit much compared to what is actually needed to comfortably drive them to a listening level, but the resulting sonic goodness is absolutely worth it.

Synergy is something I'm still learning about myself, though I would say there are headphone amps out that work well with almost any headphone out there.

i don't mean to be ignorant but what you said is basically just marketing talk. more power has nothing to do with imaging or soundstage depth. maybe it's cause they have a good topology design is reason behind their popularity but then again it can be too much praise which usually ends up as exaggeration from over hyping and so forth. not saying it's true but it's just my opinion from observation.
post #39 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by Willakan View Post

What exact "control" do such expensive amplifiers exert above others?

probably damping factor from output impedance of the amp.
post #40 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by estreeter View Post

I still dont get people trying to use the AKGs from a DAP, regardless of whether or not its 'possible'. I'm pretty confident that AKG envisaged that these cans would be hooked up to decent sources, whatever crap marketing may have been laid over the top by the beancounters upstairs in Harmon Clown Corp.

most of AKG stuff nowadays is all marketing. they tend to cater more to avg day consumers and audiophiles with their marketing. they no longer advance forward like they use to 30 years ago when they were famous for their AKG sextett design and once again became well known for their amazing akg 240DF and k1000 design. their k500 and k340 electrodynamic was a break through as well. the k701/702 is all they are is tweaked k500/501's.
post #41 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by RexAeterna View Post


most of AKG stuff nowadays is all marketing. they tend to cater more to avg day consumers and audiophiles with their marketing. they no longer advance forward like they use to 30 years ago when they were famous for their AKG sextett design and once again became well known for their amazing akg 240DF and k1000 design. their k500 and k340 electrodynamic was a break through as well. the k701/702 is all they are is tweaked k500/501's.


Granted, but my K501s cost me $199 and were worth every penny - you dont want to know what the K70* goes for in Oz .....

 

post #42 of 86

You know I always thought that using a headphone amp makes a night and day difference and after reading this thread I did a quick AB test of running my Sennheiser HD650 straight out of my phone and then connecting them to a Music Streamer --> EHHA amp and you know what ? There wasn't that huge a difference as I imagined there would be.

 

That said there WAS a pretty noticeable difference and I have no regrets spending the $500 or so for the EHHA as the differences were well worth it.

 

 

post #43 of 86

The HD 650 sounds pretty funny without an amp - it's obvious something is wrong. All in all the amp should just amplify. :P

post #44 of 86

My Q701's sound really cheap and pretty much worthless through everything I own except my Yamaha stereo amplifier, even when matching the volume, and I'm not saying that because it's big and shiny, or because I paid a lot for it, because well it's scratched up, missing a knob and it was free.  Without the amp there is very little bass at all, and drum hits sound weak and dull, not even a bit snappy, there is no crispness to the sound.  When I add in the amp it is fixed, that is not distortion doing that.  If your amp doesn't make a difference then your source already has a decent amp, or you've been ripped off.

 

Maybe it's because the Yamaha's headphone is run from the speaker outputs(don't know the resistor values used)?  My Pioneer reciever can drive them to uncomfortably loud, but it still doesn't help it sound any better than being driven directly from my sound card.


Edited by sexiewasd - 11/2/11 at 8:31pm
post #45 of 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by sexiewasd View Post

My Q701's sound really cheap and pretty much worthless through everything I own except my Yamaha stereo amplifier, even when matching the volume, and I'm not saying that because it's big and shiny, or because I paid a lot for it, because well it's scratched up, missing a knob and it was free.  Without the amp there is very little bass at all, and drum hits sound weak and dull, not even a bit snappy, there is no crispness to the sound.  When I add in the amp it is fixed, that is not distortion doing that.  If your amp doesn't make a difference then your source already has a decent amp, or you've been ripped off.

 

Maybe it's because the Yamaha's headphone is run from the speaker outputs(don't know the resistor values used)?  My Pioneer reciever can drive them to uncomfortably loud, but it still doesn't help it sound any better than being driven directly from my sound card.


Could be coloration and loss of electrical damping from output impedance, could be coloration by the amp itself, could be in your head biggrin.gif

 

Got any data sheets for that receiver so I can take a look? They tend not to publish much on the headphone jacks, unfortunately. The K701 has a sort of strange impedance curve. With high output impedance you'd get a little boost to the mid-bass (covering your "very little bass" observation) and a bigger boost to the high treble above 10 kHz (maybe added crispness). Then the damping factor could be causing extra driver ringing that makes drums sound harder. These are all just guesses.

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