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DT880 & K702 Considerations...

post #1 of 19
10/28/11 at 8:07pm
Thread Starter 

I recently came into a bit money (About $1000 USD) and would like some suggestions on a DAC/Amp combo to replace my current set up (in signature).

 

What I'm looking for in terms of sound is:

 

-Neutral

-Analytical

-Good instrument separation and imaging

-Just a little bit of warmth and musicality

-If forced to choose, Treble>Mids>Bass

-Basically as close as I can get to the recording itself

 

I've done some research and have come down to a few front runners:

 

-Burson HA-160DS with DAC and Headamp component

-Marantz SA8004 (honestly this one is probably a stupid choice out of aesthetics, I always thought receivers look awesome for some reason, I haven't read much reviews and would appreciate any impressions)

-B22 DIY done on the cheap side

-A Darkvoice to replace the Schiit Valhalla (anyone has comparisons?)

-Or just a DAC to compliment the cans/amp

 

I understand there's a putting suit on a dead donkey element with spending more on the chain than the cans but if I drop the money on better cans, I'd only need more to amp them properly so I figured I'd make the current ones sound better.

 

Any other suggestions that would make the most use of the given budget are welcome, even if you think a specific recabling will help dramatically (possibly)?

 

Oh and in case you missed the title I have the DT880 Manufaktur 600 Ohm Edition and the K702 and would like an amp/DAC combo that will compliment both as well as possible.

 

Thanks in advance and have fun. :)


Edited by NinjaSquirt - 10/28/11 at 8:20pm
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post #2 of 19
10/28/11 at 10:53pm

This doesn't answer your question but if I had an extra $1000 to spend I would probably go for an LCD-2 and sell my current setup to fund a good amp for them.  Good luck with your search, I will be checking this thread as I'm also interested in a better amp/dac.

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post #3 of 19
10/29/11 at 1:55am

LCD 2 ? why ? DT-880 is a bright phone , K702 a bit less but still in the bright side , and you advice him a dark and warm headphone instead ? i don't get it . 

 

A new DAC should be enough for an upgrade , and buy another amp later if really needed . HT omega is not bad but can't be compared to a good dac .


Edited by HaVoC-28 - 10/29/11 at 2:03am
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post #4 of 19
10/29/11 at 3:31am

I listened to an Arcam rDac a few days ago, very analytical, but still very musical, perhaps a bit on the warm side.

Anyway, that's my vote for an upgrade, I'm planning on getting one in a few months.

I think it would be just the thing for my Q701s. Make sure you get the wireless version of the rDac.

Check out the comments the Valhalla gets on this website, it is a very respected amp, I doubt that a Dark Voice would be much of an improvement.

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post #5 of 19
10/29/11 at 7:16am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris J View Post

I listened to an Arcam rDac a few days ago, very analytical, but still very musical, perhaps a bit on the warm side.

Anyway, that's my vote for an upgrade, I'm planning on getting one in a few months.

I think it would be just the thing for my Q701s. Make sure you get the wireless version of the rDac.

Check out the comments the Valhalla gets on this website, it is a very respected amp, I doubt that a Dark Voice would be much of an improvement.

Thanks for the suggestion, I'll definitely check it out and also is wireless a good idea? For high end gaming keyboards and mouses, people typically say wired is the only way to go, I assume high end audio would have the same principle.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by brokenthumb View Post

This doesn't answer your question but if I had an extra $1000 to spend I would probably go for an LCD-2 and sell my current setup to fund a good amp for them.  Good luck with your search, I will be checking this thread as I'm also interested in a better amp/dac.

I understand there's a big fan base for the LCD-2 and TBH, I've never heard it. I have heard the HD650 in length, from reading, I've gather their sound pretty much moves in the same directions (dark, bass heavy, not super large sound stage) and I gotta tell ya, even on an $12,000 system... they sounded meh. That's just me though.

 

 

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post #6 of 19
10/29/11 at 9:57am
My only two headphones are the K702 and DT880 as well. I guess I'm the treble-head though, because I use the Benchmark and a Grace m902b as my DAC and amp. Some music is too sharp with the Benchmark so I use the Grace as an amp, as it tames the highs a bit and brings out the mids. But each of them is a DAC/amp combo itself. If you are serious about getting analytical and close to the track as they mixed it, you're looking into studio equipment then, which was exactly my drive when I upgraded.
However, if you're looking for "hi-fi"/audiophiles sound instead, I have liked Meier's line of amps before, for their sweet treble and 3D-ness and instrument separation.
Edited by parrot5 - 10/29/11 at 10:02am
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post #7 of 19
10/29/11 at 10:23am
Thread Starter 

I've considered the Grace m902 as well, they're just a little bit out of my price range. I've yet to check out any Meier amps.

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post #8 of 19
10/29/11 at 1:32pm


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by NinjaSquirt View Post

Thanks for the suggestion, I'll definitely check it out and also is wireless a good idea? For high end gaming keyboards and mouses, people typically say wired is the only way to go, I assume high end audio would have the same principle.

 

I understand there's a big fan base for the LCD-2 and TBH, I've never heard it. I have heard the HD650 in length, from reading, I've gather their sound pretty much moves in the same directions (dark, bass heavy, not super large sound stage) and I gotta tell ya, even on an $12,000 system... they sounded meh. That's just me though.

 

 



Sorry if my reply is confusing.

What I meant is that I think the wireless version of the Arcam rDac is more future proof than the non wireless version.

Both versions have a USB input, an SPDIF (i.e. RCA) and an Optical input.  The wireless version adds a wireless USB and wireless Apple input.

I like the wireless version because you can use it with an iPad or iPod or with a remotely located PC.

The wireless version is approx $650 Cdn. You would also need a wireless dongle for your Apple or PC.

The analog output is a pair of RCA jacks.

 

BTW I have a pair of Q701s and they sound great with my Dark Voice 336.

I've never heard a Schitt but it gets great reviews on this web sit, as you no doubt know.

 

Personally I'm not a big Sennheiser fan either, they sound meh.  I heard a pair of HD800 on a Woo WA6SE.


Edited by Chris J - 10/29/11 at 1:35pm
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post #9 of 19
10/29/11 at 1:35pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris J View Post


 



Sorry if my reply is confusing.

What I meant is that I think the wireless version of the Arcam rDac is more future proof than the non wireless version.

Both versions have a USB input, an SPDIF (i.e. RCA) and an Optical input.  The wireless version adds a wireless USB and wireless Apple input.

I like the wireless version because you can use it with an iPad or iPod or with a remotely located PC.

The analog output is a pair of RCA jacks.

 

BTW I have a pair of Q701s and they sound great with my Dark Voice 336.

I've never heard a Schitt but it gets great reviews on this web sit, as you no doubt know.

 

Personally I'm not a big Sennheiser fan either, they sound meh.  I heard a pair of HD800 on a Woo WA6SE.

Hey, could you try to describe the DV sound? I've heard that it's dark and more bass/mid focused.
 

 

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post #10 of 19
10/29/11 at 1:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by NinjaSquirt View Post



Hey, could you try to describe the DV sound? I've heard that it's dark and more bass/mid focused.
 

 



 

 

I'll do my best.......My point of reference is comparing it to my Matrix M Stage which is solid state.

I don't find it to be dark at all.

BTW I actually own a La Figaro 336C........sorry, I keep forgetting it's not a Dark Voice.  Apparently the 336 amps the two companies make are the same. I got the La Figaro because it was $20 cheaper than the Dark Voice version.

But it does seem to be a bit mid focused.  It does have a rather liquid, relaxed sound to it. The bass certainly doesn't go as deep as I would like it to.  I understand this is because the output stage doesn't have large enough value output coupling capacitor.

 

Right now I'm listening to Dark Side Of The Moon live.  The guitars and vocals sound very smooth, especially that guitar......warm and LIQUID. I find that some of the harshness in some music is slightly diminished with the 336, which to me is a good thing. The 336 is not overly romantic or overly lush.

 

What do you think of the Schitt?  I almost bought one but decided to save a few bucks and buy a 336 instead.   I also wanted to tube roll.

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post #11 of 19
10/29/11 at 1:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by HaVoC-28 View Post

LCD 2 ? why ? DT-880 is a bright phone , K702 a bit less but still in the bright side , and you advice him a dark and warm headphone instead ? i don't get it . 

 

A new DAC should be enough for an upgrade , and buy another amp later if really needed . HT omega is not bad but can't be compared to a good dac .



I wasn't advising him to get the LCD-2, that's why I said "this doesn't answer your question".  I was only saying if I had a $1000 that would be my choice.

 

 

What I'm looking for in terms of sound is:

 

-Neutral

-Analytical

-Good instrument separation and imaging

-Just a little bit of warmth and musicality

-If forced to choose, Treble>Mids>Bass

-Basically as close as I can get to the recording itself

 

Of course I wouldn't recommend a LCD-2 to someone who wanted the sound he was looking for.  cool.gif

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post #12 of 19
10/29/11 at 2:12pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris J View Post



 

 

I'll do my best.......My point of reference is comparing it to my Matrix M Stage which is solid state.

I don't find it to be dark at all.

BTW I actually own a La Figaro 336C........sorry, I keep forgetting it's not a Dark Voice.  Apparently the 336 amps the two companies make are the same. I got the La Figaro because it was $20 cheaper than the Dark Voice version.

But it does seem to be a bit mid focused.  It does have a rather liquid, relaxed sound to it. The bass certainly doesn't go as deep as I would like it to.  I understand this is because the output stage doesn't have large enough value output coupling capacitor.

 

Right now I'm listening to Dark Side Of The Moon live.  The guitars and vocals sound very smooth, especially that guitar......warm and LIQUID. I find that some of the harshness in some music is slightly diminished with the 336, which to me is a good thing. The 336 is not overly romantic or overly lush.

 

What do you think of the Schitt?  I almost bought one but decided to save a few bucks and buy a 336 instead.   I also wanted to tube roll.

Thanks for the impression.

 

The Schiit sound is not particularly focused on the warm tube sound. It sounds like a good solid state but just a little bit of the tube warmth (enough for you to know there's tubes involved). Other than that its got great imaging and separation and made my DT880 600 Ohm sound much better than just from the sound card. The highs and lows are both great but just a little bit rolled off (you have to listen critically but its there). It also gives the lows a bit more punch.
 

 

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post #13 of 19
10/29/11 at 2:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by NinjaSquirt View Post



Thanks for the impression.

 

The Schiit sound is not particularly focused on the warm tube sound. It sounds like a good solid state but just a little bit of the tube warmth (enough for you to know there's tubes involved). Other than that its got great imaging and separation and made my DT880 600 Ohm sound much better than just from the sound card. The highs and lows are both great but just a little bit rolled off (you have to listen critically but its there). It also gives the lows a bit more punch.
 

 



 

 

I also forgot to mention that I am currently using the stock tubes, in a few weeks I want to start a bit of tube rolling.

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post #14 of 19
10/29/11 at 2:27pm

I'd get a decent mid-range DAC. 

 

DacMagic, or similar, with balanced outs - then that gives you flexibility down the road to play with a range of amps (balanced or not). My impression is that the DAC, once you get into the mid-tiers, affects the quality of the sound less than the amp/cans does... (diminishing returns on the investment) so you would still have money left over for another mid-range amp (Burson HA-160), or another set of cans (Senn 650, or Grado 325, or something) - to give some variety to the sound you current have available. Or just save that remaining $500 for a big badass amp later. 


Edited by liamstrain - 10/29/11 at 2:29pm
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post #15 of 19
10/29/11 at 4:21pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by liamstrain View Post

I'd get a decent mid-range DAC. 

 

DacMagic, or similar, with balanced outs - then that gives you flexibility down the road to play with a range of amps (balanced or not). My impression is that the DAC, once you get into the mid-tiers, affects the quality of the sound less than the amp/cans does... (diminishing returns on the investment) so you would still have money left over for another mid-range amp (Burson HA-160), or another set of cans (Senn 650, or Grado 325, or something) - to give some variety to the sound you current have available. Or just save that remaining $500 for a big badass amp later. 

Thanks for the input, do you personally own a DacMagic? If so, can you give me a general impression of it? I would love to have it then a Burson but assuming I buy them new, it'd be just over my budget. As for the other cans, I have considered some of them, I've tried both the Senn and the Grado, not a big fan of either. I guess I know what I want out of my cans and would rather get one sound done well rather than multiple sounds done okay.
 

 

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