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Do "I" really need a headphone amp?

post #1 of 46
Thread Starter 

I recently bought the Senn HD650's and am running them from my RME HDSPe internal pci soundcard (http://www.rme-audio.de/en_products_hdsp_9632.php) which has a built in headphone amp. There is certainly enough volume and power to drive the Senn's coming from the card and I can't imagine ever needing them to go louder than what I'm already getting. So do I still need an amp if it's already giving enough power? Will an amp actually improve the sound of the headphones? RME are REALLY well regarded amongst audio professionals for their DAC and the 9632 apparently has a good one of those.

 

Please any advice, I don't want to get into spending thousands on cables and gear and amp tubes, just would like to know if there would be a real boost in audio quality from a medium price amp over the already well regarded RME card?

 

Thanks for any advice

Aaron

post #2 of 46
Yes an external headphone amp will improve the sound quality. Amps aren't just about volume. They're also about control. The HD650 is quite amp dependent. I think a neutral solid state amp like the Gilmore Lite or a dynalo amp does very well. Especially with bass control.
post #3 of 46

The RME is great as a sound card, but very bad as hps amp ( I had the RME Digi 96/8). Even in baby face hps amp is on the face. 

post #4 of 46
Thread Starter 

Baka1969, thanks for your reply. It seems that Gilmour amp is no longer in production. Any other recommendations for neutral amps which are not too expensive? I'm scared to go down this road...frown.gif!!

 

Acix, sorry I don't understand what you mean by "on the face"?

post #5 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronnt1 View Post

Baka1969, thanks for your reply. It seems that Gilmour amp is no longer in production. Any other recommendations for neutral amps which are not too expensive? I'm scared to go down this road...frown.gif!!

 

Acix, sorry I don't understand what you mean by "on the face"?



Can you define "not too expensive?"

 

post #6 of 46
With a FiiO E9 you can get gobs of power for $112.
From my experience more expensive amps don't really add anything at all. The most important thing is that the amp has enough power, and the FiiO has plenty.

You can get something more fancy, but I doubt it will improve sound quality much further.
post #7 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronnt1 View Post

Acix, sorry I don't understand what you mean by "on the face"?

 

I hope this will explain in great details what I meant. wink.gif
 

face-first-fall.jpg

post #8 of 46

Soundcards typically have highish output impedance (the RME is 75 ohm) and little/no amplification headroom (e.g., no room for meaningful caps on a card).  Thus, they do not do well as headphone amps.

post #9 of 46
Thread Starter 

@Flatnine, I guess around the £150-200 mark?

 

@Tilpo, so you think the FiiO 9 will give a lot better sound quality over my RME soundcard? As I mention, power through my soundcard is not an issue, there is plenty of volume but if the FiiO would improve the sound quality then I would buy it.

 

Also, I use my headphones primarily with my desktop PC not a hi-fi - is it easy to connect amps to PC's without causing any latency issues?

 

@Acix - ha! Got ya!

 

Thanks for any further advice, I hope to get a good PC music creation set up with your advice and recommendations.

post #10 of 46

I have the HD650 too, some people use them on sound cards & ipods, but I have found like many they sound best when you give them a proper amping, but that costs money.

post #11 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronnt1 View Post

 I hope to get a good PC music creation set up with your advice and recommendations.


First you'll need to decide if you want go with tubes, or solid state amp.

post #12 of 46
Thread Starter 

@Acix, thanks. I really don't want to go down the road of tube amps and to be honest I don't want to spend too much time and money worrying about climbing a ladder of incremental degrees of audiophile sound and at this point at least I am in no position to spend thousands of pounds on the best there is and would be happy with even a lowish degree of sound as long as it could still be classed as 'audiophile' wink.gif. I would like to improve the sound of my HD650's over the good sound I'm already getting through the RME if possible for say around £200 and if the amp can be connected to my PC without causing any additional latency...

 

Would the amp still be using the DAC from the RME card?

post #13 of 46


For a little more you can get (here it comes - I sound like such a fan boy) the TTJV Slim. Of all the audio components I've purchased, I am extremely happy with this one. See this current thread: http://www.head-fi.org/t/577284/ttjv-slim.  I think it's better to spend more on something you'll really be happy with and keep, than to settle for less, be unhappy, and end up spending more anyway. But - if you're not really going to carry around your rig, you can get more bang for the buck with desktop gear, an avenue I am seriously considering.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronnt1 View Post

@Flatnine, I guess around the £150-200 mark?

 

@Tilpo, so you think the FiiO 9 will give a lot better sound quality over my RME soundcard? As I mention, power through my soundcard is not an issue, there is plenty of volume but if the FiiO would improve the sound quality then I would buy it.

 

Also, I use my headphones primarily with my desktop PC not a hi-fi - is it easy to connect amps to PC's without causing any latency issues?

 

@Acix - ha! Got ya!

 

Thanks for any further advice, I hope to get a good PC music creation set up with your advice and recommendations.



 

post #14 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronnt1 View Post

@Tilpo, so you think the FiiO 9 will give a lot better sound quality over my RME soundcard? As I mention, power through my soundcard is not an issue, there is plenty of volume but if the FiiO would improve the sound quality then I would buy it.

 

Also, I use my headphones primarily with my desktop PC not a hi-fi - is it easy to connect amps to PC's without causing any latency issues?

 

Volume is not the only thing. For one thing, output impedance is really important, and as was mentioned before soundcards typically have a high output impedance. This affects the frequency response of the system, because the output impedance will act as a voltage divider. This is not always bad, but headphones such as the HD 650 have different impedances with different frequencies, and hence the sound is altered.
Then there is also distortion. Amps that have more power can drive the same volumes with less distortion, this is especially noticeable if you drive an HD 650 out of a low voltage source such as an iPod. (usually around 1.3-1.6V). It won't sound as good as on a proper desktop amplifier.

The specs of the E9 are excellent, and will drive any headphone that is not orthodynamic or electrostatic with ease. It is essentially a fairly transparent amplifier that just amplifies the signal without altering it much.

There are also amplifiers that have a specific sound signature, and alter the signal in addition to amplifying it. This is especially true for tube amplifiers. Some people like this, and this is what from my experience is usually experienced as a better sounding amplifier. Personally I think the best way to alter sound is through DSP's (sound effects) and equalizing or through the headphones themselves. e.g. changing headphones makes a dramatic difference in sound compared to spending the same amount of money on an amplifier.
I personally have trouble telling my four headphone amplifiers apart. That is, a vintage stereo receiver, a portable amplifier (AMB Mini3), a discrete solid state amplifier (Audio-GD NFB-12) and a tube amplifier (LittleDot MKIV). You can blame it on my ears or skepticism, but I truly believe that amplifiers only make a marginal difference.

Once they are good enough, there is not need to upgrade. It is very well possible that your soundcard is not good enough. The FiiO E9 will however be without doubt good enough for your needs. You can always try upgrading later, but when you do make sure that you can return the product at a minimal restocking fee if you can't detect a difference.

Just my opinion based on experience.

Also: amplifiers work so fast that latency is never audible. Connecting it is as easy as connecting a wire. If the soundcard has RCA outputs then you're completely fine. If it only has TRS jacks, i.e. 3.5mm (1/7.2") or 6.3mm (1/4"), then you might need to buy a RCA to TRS cable. That will set you back roughly $5-10.
Edited by Tilpo - 10/26/11 at 9:52am
post #15 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronnt1 View Post

Would the amp still be using the DAC from the RME card?


Yes, connect the analog outs of your card to the E9 and plug your headphone into the E9.

 

The amp will provide a substantial upgrade.  In the unlikely event you do not find a difference, simply return it.

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