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Grado modders go Magnum - Page 155

post #2311 of 3247

I think that their drivers are housed in mahogany/Australian Jarrah-type mahogany just the right size (in which case the sound would effectively be affected/tinted by the wooden cup it is lodged in), and that the glue is more to make sure they don't fall off.

 

All the other Grados have drivers that are directly molded in ABS plastic sleeves/inserts.


Edited by devouringone3 - 1/23/13 at 9:06pm
post #2312 of 3247

When you say you would only hear the foam, is that necessarily a bad thing? Wouldn't the foam act as an agent to suspend the driver and allow you to hear only the driver, uncolored by the cup?

 

Or are you saying the foam, because of the tight fit it creates, deadens the driver and eliminates any benefits you would get from the cup at the same time?


Edited by fleasbaby - 1/23/13 at 7:36pm
post #2313 of 3247
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrislangley4253 View Post

I am strongly in camp B, along with more than a few others.. Don't single out midrange, a lot of people are very happy applying his methodologies to their grado headphones.

I have no beef, just wanted to speak up.

 

Well, "speaking up", it's exactly what these "a lot of people" using his methodologies aren't doing, that would need to be done in order to change the trend of putting any driver in any wood (that looks good) of any geometry, density; finish the wood to look shiny; fit the driver with a stripe of foam tape.. etc.

 

Okay I'm adding you in the Camp B.

 

Personally I'm not against Camp B or anything, I'm quite enthusiast about it for Grado and Magnum drivers, but I just don't make cups, and I use metal headphones all the time. So I guess I fall into A by default, but I would be in B otherwise; or in both - let's say "in both" for now... I also think the HP 1000 drivers benefit from being in metal; it's why A school isn't a bad school either, you get to hear a driver the way it is (if it's a good driver, it'll sound good... of course "good or bad" can be subjective around here).


Edited by devouringone3 - 1/23/13 at 9:07pm
post #2314 of 3247
Quote:
Originally Posted by fleasbaby View Post

When you say you would only hear the foam, is that necessarily a bad thing? Wouldn't the foam act as an agent to suspend the driver and allow you to hear only the driver, uncolored by the cup?

 

You're right; foam isn't necessarily bad, it may help the driver sing on its own, not helped ("unloaded") nor pushed (hampered, "choked") by the wall surrounding it. But it defeats a percentage of the effect ("color") cups has on sound; you could use cheap cups interchangeably and wouldn't notice as much of a change in the sound.

 

When I say "a percentage"; you could look at it this way, 50% of the sound difference on a driver different cups give would be due to the fit of the driver, and the 50 other percents, because of the fact that the cup is there (versus having nothing and leaving the driver in clear air). The percentages I gave are arbitrary ;), we should ask thelostMIDrange how much he would set them to.

 

I'm mainly recommending to the people paying money for a make over of their Grado to ask for the hole in their cups be the same diameter of the drivers that are to-be-housed, so that they can benefit 100% of the sound benefits that are to be had, if any.

 

Although now I'm realizing if your cups color the sound in a way that you don't like; then you would have to a) start doing like thelostMIDrange and try different cup woods/material, geometry, finish, etc. to find the cups you prefer (at this point I would recommend you to read about his experiments, or just his conclusions, to know what has already been done in the field), or b) enlarge the hole and use foam tape "to hear less your cups" -- which is some kind of contradiction.

 

I'm aware that people like the look of the wooden cups enough to use them even if they have a negative effect on the sound of the drivers in them, and will want to wrap their driver in foam to subtract as much as possible these effects.

 

Yes the sound produced by the driver will be less colored by the cup, if that's what you want.

 

Or are you saying the foam, because of the tight fit it creates, deadens the driver and eliminates any benefits you would get from the cup at the same time?

 

I would suggest you look at it this way: it's about establishing or not a connection between your cup and your driver. Foam is too soft, the driver in it will sound the same as if you would just leave it the hole a bit too large, and no connection will be made. It's not to say that it will sound as if the driver was cup-less and held in midair, as there are some effects from the cups being around, but there is also an added, very real benefits (that thelostMIDrange proved possible) to having the driver "making one" sound emanating element with the cup, so that the cup be instrumental to the way the driver makes sound. Effects are to be had in either School A, which cups-type focus all the effort to be done to produce sound on the driver only (which will magnify both the best and the worst of the driver; can be a very desirable effect, but all in all remains a double-edged sword), or School B, helps the driver unload/share some energy -- to give you an image about the functioning of this type of cups: the whole cup resonates like a bell or an acoustic musical instrument and works in tandem with the driver (here the strings of our "musical instrument") to either or both 1) free the driver from breakup mode, erratic behaviors, distortion and/or anything negative possibly 2) color (that you can put to your advantage to cancel-out the colored aspects of the driver that you don't like and bring out what is lacking).

 

With drivers held in foam, you're only "50%" in a school, because foam doesn't establish enough of a physical link between the driver and the cups for them to partner up to do the sound duty. These schools are about the effect cups has on the final sound, and foam defeats 50% of this effect (again this is a arbitrary percentage, but it could be 99% too! your foam-fitted driver would sound the same in any cups), and of the acoustic purpose of the cup itself, if you think there should be such a purpose for your cups (if you don't care about such a purpose, use foam, enjoy sooner and be done with it ;).

 

Like I said foam isn't bad per se, and it's why I took the time to explain the whole rationale instead of answering you just a yes or a no (which answer I don't know, but that I'm happy to have helped you answering/deciding for yourself :P). Sorry if I repeated myself a few times, lol


Edited by devouringone3 - 1/25/13 at 6:28pm
post #2315 of 3247
If the foam leaks at all, then the back wave could interact with the front wave and cancel out.
post #2316 of 3247
LMAO. I sincerely appreciate the information...part of the excitement is the tinkering to be honest, so I am sure I will be trying both variations at some point.

I read some comments on whether or not the interior of the cups should be finished and saw plenty of consensus on leaving them unfinished. Contrary to this though, Cabillas advised I paint the insides of the cups I got from him with gloss black paint (he said he preferred the sound when they were done that way)...just goes to reiterate what you said about subjectivity. I have left them stained, as they were when I received them from him.

The real test will be when I actually have the things in my hands and start listening to them. This is all so much conjecture until I actually put the things on.
post #2317 of 3247
...wretched double post again.
Edited by fleasbaby - 1/23/13 at 9:25pm
post #2318 of 3247
Quote:
Originally Posted by devouringone3 View Post

 

Well, "speaking up", it's exactly what these "a lot of people" using his methodologies aren't doing, that would need to be done in order to change the trend of putting any driver in any wood (that looks good) of any geometry, density; finish the wood to look shiny; fit the driver with a stripe of foam tape.. etc.

 

Okay I'm adding you in the Camp B.

 

Personally I'm not against Camp B or anything, I'm quite enthusiast about it for Grado and Magnum drivers, but I just don't make cups, and I use metal headphones all the time. So I guess I fall into A by default, but I would be in B otherwise; or in both - let's say "in both" for now... I also think the HP 1000 drivers benefit from being in metal; it's why A school isn't a bad school either, you get to hear a driver the way it is (if it's a good driver, it'll sound good... of course "good or bad" can be subjective around here).

For what it's worth, I'd actually classify myself and midrange in both camps as well. Given some of the techniques we are starting to apply to the inner walls of our wooden "Camp B" cups.. They are very "Camp A" techniques.. stolen right from the metal headphones you adore :)

Life is about balance... It always is.

post #2319 of 3247

Hi ! I need your help guys. I'm lookinf for a thin highquality light headphone cable for my alessandro ms pro. which to get which is comparable with the original thick grado cable ? thanks in advance

post #2320 of 3247
Quote:
Originally Posted by agoston.berko View Post

Hi ! I need your help guys. I'm lookinf for a thin highquality light headphone cable for my alessandro ms pro. which to get which is comparable with the original thick grado cable ? thanks in advance

BTG audios 8 strand SPC cable is fantastic for this.
post #2321 of 3247
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrislangley4253 View Post

For what it's worth, I'd actually classify myself and midrange in both camps as well. Given some of the techniques we are starting to apply to the inner walls of our wooden "Camp B" cups.. They are very "Camp A" techniques.. stolen right from the metal headphones you adore :)

Life is about balance... It always is.

 

Oh yeah, I think it is a "Camp A" originating technique (Joe Grado have been doing this since the beginning, 1989)... and a purely resistive/dampening one (not here to increase anything, except maybe clarity), applied to the cups but not an integral part of them though (as they remain Camp B cups at the core ;).


Edited by devouringone3 - 1/24/13 at 9:25am
post #2322 of 3247

so what do you guys think of using something like blu tack to keep the drivers in place? in theory this should work better than foam or tape right?


Edited by wormsdriver - 1/24/13 at 9:33pm
post #2323 of 3247

finally a little modding talk in a modding thread at least ! but at the risk of adnauseum.......just a little clarification. devouring/chris has my theory correct for the most part although it's seems to have been made unecessarily complicated......but I can add, again - my advice was not arrived at 'theory first', the theory came after as a way to try and understand, and it really only applies to those  1. who love the RS sound signature that john stumbled upon, 2. who value/listen to 'traditional' music or 3. are 'musician minded' and want that quality of open air instruments to come through in a headphone (campB as it where)........Each camp is of value. So don't sweat these details unless you are hardcore in the above ways. At least for those reasons I can vouch for this approach. It may or may not also benefit modern non referential sounds but who would know when dubstep sounds 'right'.........All in all the driver is much more a factor in any of this imo. the cup details and how the driver mates up with it are ways to maximize/minimize qualities the driver brings to the table, unless the cup's qualities are so intrusive that they start to figure larger in the sound equation. The RS style cup seems to be of the minimally invasive variety as is my approach where transparency/lack of wood color are the guiding lights in addition to retaining the RS 'snap'/dynamics........


Edited by thelostMIDrange - 1/25/13 at 2:43am
post #2324 of 3247

FleasBaby has had a rough day today lol... I'm sure he'll chime in

post #2325 of 3247
LMAO...it was a little sad, I will admit. I was going to keep my personal woes to myself, but since you're all strangers and friends at the same time...

I got everything back from Headphonelounge, opened the package with much glee, and set about wrapping tape around the drivers to make them sit in the cups.

Like a dingus I let them move about too much while I did it and the cables came away from one of the drivers. I believe the term the kids are using to describe this sort of thing is "epic fail".

Chris and his team have most generously offered to re-do the job. This time they will seat the drivers for me too, thus avoiding another episode of existential angst for me.
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