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Grado modders go Magnum - Page 135

post #2011 of 3232

Okay I give in. Why did you name it the Gradheiser?

post #2012 of 3232

tyll named it that. it's irrelevent really other than to suggest one can have grado presentation style but without the annoying john grado e/q..... The cups are relevent. lets talk about them


Edited by thelostMIDrange - 12/2/12 at 12:11pm
post #2013 of 3232

hint:

 

In looking at the history of the art of bell making, as it relates to grado cups don't focus on the details, see the larger point, the nose on the face, the forest not the trees etc. why could a bell have any relation to a magnum driver?

 

mostly seen in the 300hz sqaure wave, impulse response, and THD graphs, but possibly also E/Q a bit.

 

https://www.msu.edu/~carillon/batmbook/chapter4.htm

https://www.msu.edu/~carillon/batmbook/chapter5.htm


Edited by thelostMIDrange - 12/2/12 at 1:03pm
post #2014 of 3232
Quote:
Originally Posted by thelostMIDrange View Post

tyll named it that. it's irrelevent really other than to suggest one can have grado presentation style but without the annoying john grado e/q..... The cups are relevent. lets talk about them

 

THESE ARE GRADO DRIVERS?! Tyll named them a bit misleadingly; he should have made a write-up on them !

 

It's the best graphs I have ever seen for a Grado drivers: lower distortion in the highs, bass slightly more extended, smoother frequency response, squarer waves !

 

This makes me wish I was into the modding scene with my Grados...

 

 I should have read your long posts when you were modding your Grado... I was buying ChrisLangley's MS2i metal cups and he was quite impressed by what you were doing.


Edited by devouringone3 - 12/2/12 at 6:01pm
post #2015 of 3232

the drivers aren't the factor here. they were mags fwiw but it's the cups and their tuning that changes the measurements. I tuned them to be sort of a cross of a grado hf2 and senn650.hence the name. but again, all this is not the point. Getting the word out to makers of wood cups and some general guidelines is the point. I've been workinghard at it encountering resistance, stubborness, or pride all along the way. In any case, one could apply the principles to a grado driver and tune things to whatever preference or within whatever limits the driver allows. Grado drivers are fine and i've heard excellent results from grado drivers in these cups, it's just that it's easier to buy magnums and work with them since they're already liberated. The 2k smoothing is wood choice I believe and the decent square, dist and impulse is from cup geometry and method of driver mounting is my guess. the extended bass is the magnum drivers. The cups probably don't extend anything, but the slightly more gentle upper bass hump common to grado/mag is definitely cup tuning. Take a look at marticsutom audio graphs for some wicked humps in that area. The exotic woods and/or poor cup geometry aggrevate that hump and everything else for that matter.

post #2016 of 3232

btw, tyll doesn't like grados or any can that doesn't have extended, or punchy bass it seems, so i wouldn't expect any praise coming from that direction even if they measure better than any other grado this may not sway anyone who has a beef with this style of phone. To my ears, the mags have fine bass and this is coming from someone who has been playing bass guit for 20 years. I like to hear my favorite basslines just as much as anyone and am not dissapointed by a good grado/mag style phone. In fact I prefer that style of low impact bass presentation. Would it be nice to have it reach a little deeper or a touch tighter? maybe, but it's not a deal beaker given the strengths of the grado style phone for mids and highs........

post #2017 of 3232

Hey guys, just wanted to jump in and say a few words. I'm Luke from Vibro Labs. I make cups for Turbulent Labs and Headphone Lounge customers.

 

As of September 1st, all Vibro cups were coated only on the exterior, leaving the interior bare mahogany. Early versions of the Classic and Vintage were polyurethane coated inside and out.

 

As such, the owner of bare bore cups must be careful to not submit them to extremes... ie, walking outside in below freezing temps, and then walking into a hot and dry furnace room. It's worth mentioning that a handful of pairs around early October received an experimental winter finish (my shop can get to be 20*f from Nov - April) that produced good results, but was stopped due to the time it took to apply and the variability in result.

 

I never personally had my hands on the Magnum v4 build that Biscuitz received, so I can't comment on the sound. Rhydon is an incredible guy and he stands behind his work, so I was personally not surprised when he offered to eat the cost of sending out the X drivers on Turbulent Lab's behalf. One thing I would suggest to Biscuitz is to check to make sure the grille isn't vibrating sympathetically with the driver, causing unwanted buzzing noises. I would have liked to hear about this directly from Biscuitz, so future customers please feel free to contact me. I don't read the forums as much as you guys do.

 

Hope this clears things up

Luke


Edited by taiden - 12/3/12 at 8:00am
post #2018 of 3232

PM sent, thanks Luke.

post #2019 of 3232
Quote:
Originally Posted by thelostMIDrange View Post

1000

notice anything here in these 300 hz square responses ?

 

 

 

THD

 

1000

 

 

 

 

 

 

30HZ square - notice how all grados and magnums will have semi-loose and fairly non punchy low end. I have no problem with this however

1000

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

FR  - notice anything about:

 

the 2k grado peaks

severity of low end hump

high end overactivity

1000

 

 

 

 

 

lessons?

 

of the dozen grado/magnums measured over at tyll's site. only two are able to quiet the 2k grado peak. the hp1000 and gradheiser. aren't you curious how that was accomplished?

 

cocobolo cups, especially of certain geometry, sound pretty poor in every way.

 

there is little that can be done to make grado's overly punchy, and thank god for that.

 

you don't have to have high distortion in a grado/magnum

 

even the mighty hp1000 driver can be degraded with poor cup tuning. The hp1000 is hailed as one of the best headphones ever people. How can the driver perform as it does in the above graph. ask yourself that.

 

the grado style phone measures pretty poorly compared to reference phones. this is widely known, but all these pad mods and holes in the back of drivers etc are pretty meaningless compared to the cup tuning.

 

John grado did not do the grado phone technology any justice over the last however many years when he took over the helm. There is potential untapped. magnum modders can tap it and steer the ship in a smoother more natural direction if they focus on the right things......

 

The only mod I did to the gradheiser 650 phones involves the cups. No pad mods. This should reinforce the understanding regarding the power of the cup in shaping magnum sound and you all need to demand that makers of wood cups take notice if you want anything approaching consistent or reference quality sound from your magnums. current and past cup makers have absolutely dropped the ball and failed to notice even after months and years now of evidence to the contrary. They might as well be part of the flat earth society. that group of hangers on who just didn't want to admit the new evidence of a round earth. Please please people, stop the insanity. inquire as to why the gradheiser performs as it does. learn, grow, prosper....carry on.

 

 

 

 

 

anyone who is motivated can take closer looks at the gradheiser650 and compare with all other grado, magnum, or any other phone over at tyll's site.

 

So how close are the cups I bought from you to the design of the gradheiser650, because I'm still absolutely smitten with them, they are some of the best Can's I have ever owned.

 

Pic's of said cups http://i.imgur.com/CZphs.jpg

post #2020 of 3232

they have the same geometry, meaning, the thickness of the walls is quite thin, near 1/8" which makes the cups delicate. The difference is the material. Those are mahog and they seemed to sound best in the longer length, so that is the other difference. Mahog seems to have a little snappier sound than the ones in the graphs so maybe the peaks up in the highs would be shifted a little and/or a bit higher 2k peak ala grado. If you see that rather sharp downturn after 2k, I'd guess that stays a little higher in your set to reflect some increased upper mid activity. But this is speculation based on my hearing of that wood and i've not had a set of those cups in mahog tested so. but glad you like them. Do you sense a liveliness or dynamic quality in the sound compared to other phones? This is the quality I hear in these delicate cups compared to standard grado cups or the bulkier artpieces made by custom makers. And especially compared to sennheiser type sounds, yours should sound more lively and 'light on their feet'. I think the tradeoff is more distortion at more than moderate volume levels. but this is just based on my listening.


Edited by thelostMIDrange - 12/4/12 at 10:54pm
post #2021 of 3232

Question for Grado modders:

 

Will I get more kick (bass kick, not base-line) with the Magnum driver?

 

Thanks

post #2022 of 3232
Yes, I personally have found Magnums to have more bass kick than the Grado Rs1 and below. I havent heard the PS or HP series so I cant comment on those.
post #2023 of 3232
Quote:
Originally Posted by thelostMIDrange View Post

they have the same geometry, meaning, the thickness of the walls is quite thin, near 1/8" which makes the cups delicate. The difference is the material. Those are mahog and they seemed to sound best in the longer length, so that is the other difference. Mahog seems to have a little snappier sound than the ones in the graphs so maybe the peaks up in the highs would be shifted a little and/or a bit higher 2k peak ala grado. If you see that rather sharp downturn after 2k, I'd guess that stays a little higher in your set to reflect some increased upper mid activity. But this is speculation based on my hearing of that wood and i've not had a set of those cups in mahog tested so. but glad you like them. Do you sense a liveliness or dynamic quality in the sound compared to other phones? This is the quality I hear in these delicate cups compared to standard grado cups or the bulkier artpieces made by custom makers. And especially compared to sennheiser type sounds, yours should sound more lively and 'light on their feet'. I think the tradeoff is more distortion at more than moderate volume levels. but this is just based on my listening.

 

Lively and dynamic are two very good terms for them, and they suite me well, I am a Klipsch fan in my home stereo, so the somewhat forward and dynamic nature of both please me. Thanks for responding, since buying them blind, I have read a lot about the process you went through with builds and I have to say I'm totally impressed with how far you were willing to go searching for differences in cup tuning. You can be a tad hard to read sometimes, as you edit out full posts a lot, but I think head-fi is lucky to have people willing to do real work and share their results. Either way I remain very well pleased with the cans.

post #2024 of 3232

sorry, the edit of posts is the result of being far out from the mainstream around here but also wanting to speak in a candid manner.....My brother had the klipsch fortes when we were younger. Those things rocked the house like no other! 

post #2025 of 3232
Quote:
Originally Posted by thelostMIDrange View Post

sorry, the edit of posts is the result of being far out from the mainstream around here but also wanting to speak in a candid manner.....My brother had the klipsch fortes when we were younger. Those things rocked the house like no other! 

 

Fortes are awesome, I have bigger La Scala's, but I'm getting OT. Any one have their hands on the Magnum V5(X) yet?

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