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Novice with sound. Advice needed for sound card paird with ATH-A700

post #1 of 25
10/14/11 at 1:31pm
Thread Starter 

Hello Head-Fi'ers!

 

I have to first preface this post with an enormous thank you to (everyone) here on this site that helped me decide on my MP3 player. After a few weeks of reading reviews, specs, etc, the suggestions found from this site were the most enlightening and detailed I came across. And I must say that little thing is downright amazing! Which is why I'm returning for assistance with more audio questions. For the TLDR people I apologize, scroll down for the questions.

 

I'm about to purchase my first ever set of cans, and I'm 98% positive I'll be going with the ATH-A700's based off of many, many reviews and threads from people after the same audio qualities I am. These fit my price range. I Can't spend more than $120-$150 as I am wanting to pick up my first ever dedicated sound card as well, and I'm on a budget. As I'm just scratching the surface to the PC audio world I'm not exactly sure which direction to go.

 

Last year I built my first ever PC. Semi high end gaming rig. I won't rattle off all of the specs, but I will post a link to my motherboard as some of you may want to check out the specs. It's an Asus P7P55D-E Pro. But for people that don't like links, some quick audio specs:

 

VIA® VT1828S 8-Channel High Definition Audio CODEC
- Absolute Pitch BD192/24
- DTS Surround Sensation UltraPC
- Supports Jack-Detection, Multi-streaming, Front Panel Jack-Retasking
- Coaxial / Optical S/PDIF out ports at back I/O

 

So my question is this. Which sound card will give me better / clearer / more impressive / more accurate sound than this onboard stuff? I think I'd be after a card that has a built in headphone amp, as I WANT to hear the benefit of having one. Also, I'm fairly certain I'd want a card that does Dolby Headphone. I listened to a sample of this feature and couldn't wipe the smile off my face. (not sure how this compares to CMSS-3D). I'd like to spend less than $150.

 

To give you a better idea of my listening preferences, I'm most interested in using this setup for PC gaming, followed closely by music (hip hop / reggae mostly, then blues / funk) I've only recently discovered .flac and I'm thirsty for a better sound solution than I have. But first and foremost I'm spending money on better sound for gaming.

 

MUCH thank you's in advance. And I apologize if this is already covered elsewhere on this site. Digging through 8k+ replies to the 'Don't start a new thread ask for advice here....' thread didn't yield what I was after.

 

Tek

 

 

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Gear mentioned in this thread:

Audio Technica ATH-A700 Headphones
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ASUS Xonar DX 7.1 Channels PCI Express Interface Sound Card
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Audio Technica ATH-AD700
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post #2 of 25
10/14/11 at 1:39pm

Heya,

 

Could you explain why you want the A700's specifically? Since you're clearly on a budget, I would be thorough before you get that headphone understanding what else you can get in that price range. So try and let us know what kind of sound you're looking for. Also, note, those are the closed back versions--which is what prompted me to question it. As for sound card selection, your onboard sound is actually fine. I would not stress over having higher quality for something like the AD/A700 series. The only thing I would suggest is find the cheapest way to get Dolby Headphone (which will be the Xonar DG for like $30).

 

Very best,

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post #3 of 25
10/14/11 at 1:44pm

 

I was in a similar situation not too long ago. I'm not really an expert but when I asked around for advice, I was suggested the ASUS Xonar DX more than once. Sadly, ASUS decided with my mobo that if I wanted to run SLI, my PCI and PCI-e x1 slots would be covered up. I ended up settling on an external DAC until I finish my HTPC.

 

However, like I said, I can only offer what was suggested to me from a few different places for music/gaming and that was the Xonar DX. 

 

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post #4 of 25
10/14/11 at 3:57pm
Thread Starter 

 

 

Quote:
Could you explain why you want the A700's specifically?

 

Absolutely!

 

I started with price. I would like to stay within the $100-$150 range for the cans. I've read the ATH-AD700 and ATH-A700 were the best bang for the buck in said price range.

 

I think I'd prefer the closed back option over the opens for the sole reason that at heart, I am a bass fanatic. Plain and simple. I need it. I've also read that the A700's have good sound resolution for being a closed back can. Although I understand the open style backs offer a bigger / wider sound resolution better for positional audio in games and what not, but I HAVE to have bass presence. I MUST FEEL EXPLOSIONS! I've been on the BF3 beta using my iHarmonix Platinum EV's (please don't laugh) and the sound from that game is astonishing. I can only imagine what it would sound like on a pair of real headphones.

 

Also, I've started to dabble in home audio. I recently picked up a Pioneer VSX-921K receiver and a set of Polk Audio towers (5.1 setup). So I'd also pick the cans up for listening to high bit rate MP3's / flac's.

 

So yes, I'm very interested in the A700's based off what other people say about them. And they're in my price range.

 

I'd pick that Xonar DG up in a heart beat if I knew it would process sound better than my onboard. The built in headphone amp I've read will give benefit, although may be small, to these headphones. The only thing is I have a much larger budget for a discrete solution than the Xonar DG. I'm not really looking for cheapest per say. Just good bang for the buck with above mentioned options. I'd like to spend $300 or less on a card + phones. I really don't want a high dollar set of cans that need some kind of crazy external amp. I need to ease into my upgrade path. 

wink_face.gif

 

 

 

Tek

 

p.s. The girlfriend is standing over me now, demanding that we go out. So I'll check back in tomorrow morning!

 

 

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post #5 of 25
10/14/11 at 4:01pm
Thread Starter 

 

 

Quote:
ASUS decided with my mobo that if I wanted to run SLI, my PCI and PCI-e x1 slots would be covered up

 

I won't have that issue if I decide to crossfire.

Mobo pic with details here.

 

Tek

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post #6 of 25
10/14/11 at 5:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tekone View Post
Hello Head-Fi'ers!

I have to first preface this post with an enormous thank you to (everyone) here on this site that helped me decide on my MP3 player. After a few weeks of reading reviews, specs, etc, the suggestions found from this site were the most enlightening and detailed I came across. And I must say that little thing is downright amazing! Which is why I'm returning for assistance with more audio questions. For the TLDR people I apologize, scroll down for the questions.

I'm about to purchase my first ever set of cans, and I'm 98% positive I'll be going with the ATH-A700's based off of many, many reviews and threads from people after the same audio qualities I am. These fit my price range. I Can't spend more than $120-$150 as I am wanting to pick up my first ever dedicated sound card as well, and I'm on a budget. As I'm just scratching the surface to the PC audio world I'm not exactly sure which direction to go.

Last year I built my first ever PC. Semi high end gaming rig. I won't rattle off all of the specs, but I will post a link to my motherboard as some of you may want to check out the specs. It's an Asus P7P55D-E Pro. But for people that don't like links, some quick audio specs:

VIA® VT1828S 8-Channel High Definition Audio CODEC
- Absolute Pitch BD192/24
- DTS Surround Sensation UltraPC
- Supports Jack-Detection, Multi-streaming, Front Panel Jack-Retasking
- Coaxial / Optical S/PDIF out ports at back I/O

So my question is this. Which sound card will give me better / clearer / more impressive / more accurate sound than this onboard stuff? I think I'd be after a card that has a built in headphone amp, as I WANT to hear the benefit of having one. Also, I'm fairly certain I'd want a card that does Dolby Headphone. I listened to a sample of this feature and couldn't wipe the smile off my face. (not sure how this compares to CMSS-3D). I'd like to spend less than $150.

To give you a better idea of my listening preferences, I'm most interested in using this setup for PC gaming, followed closely by music (hip hop / reggae mostly, then blues / funk) I've only recently discovered .flac and I'm thirsty for a better sound solution than I have. But first and foremost I'm spending money on better sound for gaming.

MUCH thank you's in advance. And I apologize if this is already covered elsewhere on this site. Digging through 8k+ replies to the 'Don't start a new thread ask for advice here....' thread didn't yield what I was after.

Tek

That motherboard's built in sound card uses the same settings for the 2 Speaker/headphone output.

Most sound cards made today, use separate setting for the 2 speaker output and Headphone output.

The Xonar DG offers a decent headphone amplifer with 3 separate Ohm range settings.

The Xonar DG comes with Dolby Headphone 5.1.

With the low cost of the Xonar DG card, it stills leaves you with $100.00 or more dollars for the headphones.
 

 

 

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post #7 of 25
10/15/11 at 11:00am
Thread Starter 

 

 

Quote:
With the low cost of the Xonar DG card, it stills leaves you with $100.00 or more dollars for the headphones.

 

I'm not sure why I didn't consider this. I guess I assumed for the price it wasn't going to be worth it, the motto 'you get what you pay for' in electronics I suppose.

 

But, keeping this in mind, and after looking around for 'the best cans for ~$200':

 

Quote:
Expect to get the typical recommendation: A500/A900, DT770, and for open headphones HD580. You really don't want to spend more money than this on "gaming headphones"

 

An open can is out of the question. I need isolation, bass, comfort (has to be circumaural), overall sound accuracy / resolution.

So now looking around it seems the Beyerdynamic DT 770 Pro 80's beat out the A900's for what I'm after. Out of nearly all reviews and comparisons of the aforementioned models they all seem to agree about one thing, that the DT770's are just hands down the better choice for bass heads.

 

Quote:
 ..Coming from stereo systems with room-shaking 12" subs, it is not easy to acclimate to any pair of headphones let alone bass-light ones. That's why I sold my Audio Technica ATH-M50 headphones two weeks after receiving them. The M50 lacked chutzpah in the lower range of frequencies even when equalized. The Beyer DT770 pro/80s are a different story. The bass is clean and smooth down to 30hz, which is as good extension as any sub, but the DT770 unequalized have very muddy unimpressive midbass with harsh sibilance-filled highs. The simple solution to this problem is to use an equalizer. Equalizing is not the be-all end-all for sound systems, but it is often overlooked... This basic EQ, makes the DT770 sound very similar to the M50 in the mid/high range, but gives the bass a subwoofer feel. On ipods there are no EQ's like this, but DT770 are mostly for home use in any case. The mids on the DT770 will always be more muffled than the M50, but you can use an EQ to accentuate mids somewhat. The highs, after equalization, are more accurate than any dome tweeter I have heard. 

 

It's really the background I come from. 12" subs. I used to have a pair of PPI 12's (flat piston version) and I've been a bass fanatic since. 

 

As I've stated earlier I'm new to this field, but I'd like to assume that the Xonar DG would be all I need for these 770's for the performance boost I'm after in a PC gaming (most notably FPS) environment, with music coming in at a very close second priority.

 

So as a final thought, would the Xondar DG pair well with the DT770 Pro 80's and give me the performance, or upgrade I'm looking for? Or would I be better off with a different card that does Dolby Headphone and also pick up an external headphone amp?

 

 

 

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post #8 of 25
10/15/11 at 11:31am

most onboard stuff is pretty bad. i'm a hardcore pc gamer. the via codecs are hopelessly outdated.

 

the xonar dg for 30 bucks is a great deal and is has a headphone amp built in which will make your headphones sing. also has dolby headphone, which works nice with games that output a 5.1 signal (many do)

i have a xonar dg myself, along with a modded x-fi. my fave gaming cans are an ath-a900

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post #9 of 25
10/15/11 at 2:03pm

Do you play any older games that make use of EAX? If so, you may want to go for an X-Fi Prelude, Forte, or Titanium HD.

 

If not, then it's more of a toss-up as to whether you prefer CMSS-3D Headphone or Dolby Headphone, and whether or not you'd benefit from anything better than a Xonar DG.

 

In terms of headphone suggestions...you want to feel explosions, huh? I've got a Panasonic RP-HTF600 on the way, and they're said to rumble your ears WITHOUT compromising on the rest of the spectrum, all for a mere $30-35. I'll find out for myself on Tuesday.

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post #10 of 25
10/15/11 at 2:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by NamelessPFG View Post
Do you play any older games that make use of EAX? If so, you may want to go for an X-Fi Prelude, Forte, or Titanium HD.

If not, then it's more of a toss-up as to whether you prefer CMSS-3D Headphone or Dolby Headphone, and whether or not you'd benefit from anything better than a Xonar DG.

In terms of headphone suggestions...you want to feel explosions, huh? I've got a Panasonic RP-HTF600 on the way, and they're said to rumble your ears WITHOUT compromising on the rest of the spectrum, all for a mere $30-35. I'll find out for myself on Tuesday.

My Panasonic RP-HTF600-S also arrives on Tuesday, Velour pads should also arrive around the same time, total price $58.
 

 

 

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post #11 of 25
10/15/11 at 9:05pm
Thread Starter 

 

 

 

 

 

Quote:

most onboard stuff is pretty bad. i'm a hardcore pc gamer. the via codecs are hopelessly outdated.

 

the xonar dg for 30 bucks is a great deal and is has a headphone amp built in which will make your headphones sing. also has dolby headphone, which works nice with games that output a 5.1 signal (many do)

i have a xonar dg myself, along with a modded x-fi. my fave gaming cans are an ath-a900

 

Interesting. What kind of PC games do you tend to favor most? Which other gaming cans have you had / tried? And why exactly are the ATH-A900's your favorite of the bunch?

 

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post #12 of 25
10/15/11 at 9:12pm
Thread Starter 

 

 

 

Quote:

Do you play any older games that make use of EAX? If so, you may want to go for an X-Fi Prelude, Forte, or Titanium HD.

 

If not, then it's more of a toss-up as to whether you prefer CMSS-3D Headphone or Dolby Headphone, and whether or not you'd benefit from anything better than a Xonar DG.

 

In terms of headphone suggestions...you want to feel explosions, huh? I've got a Panasonic RP-HTF600 on the way, and they're said to rumble your ears WITHOUT compromising on the rest of the spectrum, all for a mere $30-35. I'll find out for myself on Tuesday.

 

I really don't play older games. I'm currently on BFBC2, SC2, HoN, Crysis 2. Soon to be Skyrim, BF3. I haven't heard CMSS-3D but I hear Dolby Headphone is where it's at for gaming.

 

Quote:
My Panasonic RP-HTF600-S also arrives on Tuesday, Velour pads should also arrive around the same time, total price $58

 

And as for these HTF600's, well after reading you two talk about them, and MalVeauX's review, I decided to just order a pair. $35 shipped lol. I can hold off on something more expensive for a bit. It'll give me a chance to read up on more models. 

 

 

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post #13 of 25
10/15/11 at 9:21pm

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tekone View Post

I really don't play older games. I'm currently on BFBC2, SC2, HoN, Crysis 2. Soon to be Skyrim, BF3. I haven't heard CMSS-3D but I hear Dolby Headphone is where it's at for gaming.

 

And as for these HTF600's, well after reading you two talk about them, and MalVeauX's review, I decided to just order a pair. $35 shipped lol. I can hold off on something more expensive for a bit. It'll give me a chance to read up on more models. 

 

The whole CMSS-3D Headphone vs. Dolby Headphone debate (for PC gaming, anyway; console gamers like Mad Lust Envy only have Dolby Headphone to use at lower price points) is not one I'll get into until I can give Dolby Headphone a fair shake in games (which I can't with my X-Fi cards; maybe if someone were to lend me an Astro Mixamp, Turtle Beach Ear Force DSS, or JVC/Victor SU-DH1, I could just feed one of those a Dolby Digital Live stream via S/PDIF and then pass my judgment.)

 

As for the headphones...the HTF600 will be the first headphone I own that even resembles a basshead can. I don't want bass overwhelming mids or treble like certain other models (XB500 especially) are infamous for, though more impactful, tactile bass is not a bad thing. I just want to know if the HTF600's sound signature is balanced enough for me to like it while providing what most would consider to be "good bass", especially as someone who's become rather fond of the Stax sound (which isn't bass-anemic by any means, just less impactful).

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post #14 of 25
10/16/11 at 6:31am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tekone View Post

 

 

 

 

 

 

Interesting. What kind of PC games do you tend to favor most? Which other gaming cans have you had / tried? And why exactly are the ATH-A900's your favorite of the bunch?

 


i play fps games mostly. lfd2 now, but have played the unreal tournament and battlefield series. I hve tried almost all the major headphones around here, look at my sig, i still have many! the a900s have been my fave for very deep bass response along with very clear highs. they arent the bassiest, but reproduce a lower note with more clarity than most any other can i've had. 

as far as cmss3d vs dolby, i have a xonar and an x-fi. they are very comparable in how they work. the x-fi will give u a larger stage and more believable 3d effect, but messes with the sound more. the x-fi will also give u more ways to get your basshead going.

the xonar has cleaner sound, and the built in amp in good for more headphones lower than 250 ohms. 

 

basshead cans:

dt770 pro- huge bass, but wonky highs (for me)

jvc ha-rx900 -lots of peeps love the rx900 and rx700- best budget cans by far

denon ahd2000 -a little expensive tho

sony mdr-v700 -very bassy, watch for fakes

audio technica ath-m50 - a very popular can around here

 

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post #15 of 25
10/16/11 at 1:05pm
Thread Starter 

 

 

 

 

Quote:

basshead cans:

dt770 pro- huge bass, but wonky highs (for me)

jvc ha-rx900 -lots of peeps love the rx900 and rx700- best budget cans by far

denon ahd2000 -a little expensive tho

sony mdr-v700 -very bassy, watch for fakes

audio technica ath-m50 - a very popular can around her

 

I see the ATH-A900's didn't make that list. 

I guess I'll run down to the local Guitar Center and check out the dt770's. Everything I read lends me to believe that is going to be my can..

 

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Gear mentioned in this thread:

Audio Technica ATH-A700 Headphones
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ASUS Xonar DX 7.1 Channels PCI Express Interface Sound Card
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Audio Technica ATH-AD700
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