CanJam@RMAF 2011 Listening Impressions Thread - Page 8  

That stand cost 2500 SEK. That's $379 

Dear Milos,

I wish I'm there at the meet.  However, meet impressions are often inaccurate.  I'm sure many Audeze owners

will report back on their findings after more listening sessions.  I'm curious on what the SR009+BHSE sounds like. 

 

     I know you and Andy love SR009.   I still think it is an excellent phone but to find a proper amplifier may be difficult. Birgir

suggested that it should be driven warm full sound amplifier so he use 007T and he still prefer the O2.   As you know Chinsettawong

has finished building DIY T2 and we all know that the sound is similar to BHSE but probably better.  He used O2mkI and SR009

on first sound of SR009 he said "wow"   however after 2 hours of alternate listening between O2mkI and SR009. He said that the sound

is little too bright to listen for a long time and he preferred O2.  I also felt the same but did not mention this before with him and I use the tube preamplifier

with tube rolling to tame this little bright edge with great result. So that's what I  and Chinsettawong think of SR009 + DIY T2 which

should be the same as BHSE.  I know you may have different opinion but it may be due to different source ( you have one of the greatest)

cable, tubes used , genre of music , personal preference and other things too.
 

It is really disappointing how people have jumped to conclusions on the LCD-3s (and the whole Audez'e line for that matter) without any real basis of fact. I was able to speak to the Audez'e guys to ask some questions about the various models. Here's what I was told. 

 

The LCD-2 rev 2 was not a planned change. They were having issues with the driver materials which necessitated a change. So, the wanted to distinguish the new material with a change in name (rev 2) but the change did not warrant a price change since there wasn't a lot of associated R&D

 

The LCD-3 has been in the works for a long time. I cannot recall the time period or even if it was specifically mentioned. It is a completely new design despite the similar looks to the 2. 

 

I was able to listen to them for about 20 minutes which is not nearly enough time to finalize my impression. I will say they do sound very different than the LCD-2 rev 1 which is what I own and listen to quite often. There is definitely more emphasis in the high end and more detail in general. However, since I did not listen to them on my setup at home, I can't really go any farther in reviewing them. 

 

Are they worth $2k?  That's for each person to decide for themselves. 

 

@vpivinylspinner, great photos!

It is really disappointing how people have jumped to conclusions on the LCD-3s

(and the whole Audez'e line for that matter) without any real basis of fact. I was able

to speak to the Audez'e guys to ask some questions about the various models. Here's

what I was told. 

    I don't think we jump into any conclusion yet because of limited information.   Again I don't really

understand why you have to be really disappointed when others have different views than yours.

This thread may be quite different from the other thread that most will jump in for the preorder because

some information was given.   I think in this thread people may be more critical and cost

conscious to throw away 2000$ even they can afford that. Looking at their profile you will know that

they  own several great  and expensive gadgets.   We are also looking of what we call incremental cost

benefit.  We are trying to get info by sharing opinion to see whether the LCD3 is truly worth 2000$

and I can sense that we are not confident enough to spend that much

 

Are they worth $2k?  That's for each person to decide for themselves. 

   That's what we are trying to do.   We are not doing what we call "the Dilbert Principle" that you let

your heart decide first and then you use your head trying to find  several reasons to rationalize your move.

 

One thing that I do agree with Jalo in another thread is that when Milos asked about the BHSE with SR009

I think we are thinking about a minor pitfall of the SR009.  Yes,  the SR009 may be little bright in some set up

and LCD2 or LCD3 may have an edge over there.  But those advantage can make us to use another 2000$ or not

that's what we will decide when we get more reliable information not just feeling.

 

 

I am not sure what views of mine you are referring to since I really tried to keep my post factual. My disappointment related to people assuming that the whole role out of the rev 2 and the 3 were manipulated and driven by Audez'e's greed. Maybe it was, but there were no facts to support it. 

 

The $2k price barrier has been breached by a number of other headphones. I guess people will have to decide if this pair is worth it (compared to the 2s). I agree it is a big price difference. 

 

 

I am not sure what views of mine you are referring to since I really tried to keep my post factual.

My disappointment related to people assuming that the whole role out of the rev 2 and the 3 were

manipulated and driven by Audez'e's greed. Maybe it was, but there were no facts to support it

      I apologize if my comment offended you.

      I only feel that people are expressing the frustration of the limited information to justify the high price tag.

I cannot read their minds but that's what I feel when I saw their blogs.  I also think that they have enough interest

and trust in LCD product to write in this blog and they are willing to pay if there is enough evidence for that.

There are of course some exaggerations but I think it's the way of present day expression which I sometimes

did slip that unintentionally.

BTW before we go into more serious discussion on this enjoyable hobby.  I do like the approach of Uncle Erik

who has a lot of experience about the hype of new phones.  I hope he doesn't mind posting it here.

 

First, initial proclamations of Best Ever.

Second, the Backlash and claims of being overrated.

Third, fight fight fight!

Fourth, general consensus of sound signature.

Since I've enjoyed the LCD1 and LCD2, I think I'll enjoy these, too. Though I'll give them a listen before buying and

probably pick up a used pair after the Backlash begins. Or maybe I'll grab a LCD2 from someone upgrading.

Those are pretty good headphones

 

Are we making a scene like this?

 

Thank you for bringing some more background information on the birth of the LCD3. I still would very much like to get some explanation for the drastic price increase instead of justification using the motive of "supply and demand". At the current pace of the headphone price rise in contrast to the economic conditions, grapes are going to turn sour soon enough. This is already a very small market and I am not sure people after social status markers will throw, say 10 grands, into a bling bling headphone rather something more substantial as a pair of speakers. 

 

My point is that price has to be justified at least somewhat by the cost of bringing it to the market. For Sennheiser HD800, it was rather easy to understand given the visible amount of R&D (and performance obviously). For Stax 009, well once you see it up close you can tell it's almost swiss precision type of finish (plus they claim to have very high cost of manufacturing of the electrode with quite poor yield), they didn't just throw the price like that saying that it sounds 5 grands.

 

I think it's natural to get such suspicious reactions for such a similarly looking design to previous generation, albeit at 2x the cost (flashback to the PS1000 debacle). This is a question of credibility imo.

I think what many are referring to too is limited information on the headphone. The Rev2 being issued and then a twice the price LCD3. I agree with dave only the person shelling out the 2K can decide if they are worth it. For me I cannot see spending that much money on any one headphone but others may.Luckily I was able to buy my two flasgships for way under list new. I also think most people see minor changes to connectors and another piece of wood and everything else the same are having a hard time dealing that these new ones are 2K. I have stayed away from Stax as I do prefer speakers and cannot help thinking i could buy a new pair of Maggie 1.7 for the same 2K but thats just me. I think they will sell some but I cannot see them selling as many as the 945.00 cans they first brought to market. Time will tell and the market will determine if they are worth the huge price difference. I think its early in the game for them and the tweaking of current product models in the past did bother me personally but in  the end I cannot use the weight  because of my health issues. I did like my LCD2 except for the limited soundstage and airless presentation but the design caused too much discomfort for my neck and caused shoulder problems which  for me made it easy for me to bail out of them.  I also now have heard the rumbling of a new LCD4 coming out so that not too smart from Audeze when they are trying to sell another twice the price headphone.

 

Extra $10 for Zebra Wood + $5 for the exposed poorly designed angled connectors , that leaves about a $985 price increase at retail  for the new Lotus membrane over the old one. To justify that increase, the production costs and R&D for the Lotus has to be a at least 10X more than the old membrane. You be the judge.

 

Also, I would be more interested in finding out if Audeze plans to incorporate any of their new technology (?) into future production of the LCD-2. Can somebody pose this question to Audeze at the show?

Can someone go check out the Grado PS500s?

2 complete falacies in one post.

 

1.  Price does not necessarily have to do with cost.  If the increase in benefit t the target market is greater than the increase in cost, they will sell. 

 

2.  $10 for the zebrawood + $ for the connectors + whatever the lotus driver costs does NOT IN ANY WAY finish the cost equation for the new product.  The 2nd one sold might have that...but only if the 1st pair sold covered all the R&D costs and cost of additional employees and equipment needed.  That 1st pair would prolly be $100K or more...or those costs might be spread out over several hundred pairs.  Unless you want to buy that 1st pair and help us all out, I think it's more likely going to be that latter.

I spent some time listening to the LCD-3 at CanJam yesterday. Sorry for the delay in posting but I was having too much fun to be on line. The real world is far more entertaining.

That said, I was impressed by what I heard from the LCD-3. While show conditions are not the best, especially for open headphones, it was very obvious to me that the LCD-3 have a level of nuance and transparency that is very, very high, and has the potential to be a significant step up. I say potential because I will not know this for sure until I get a pair in my house for review, which I will be doing soon - Audeze has agreed to get me a review pair very soon.

More later.

Sorry double post.
Edited by Skylab - 10/15/11 at 7:47am