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post #9361 of 11248
Hmm. FWIW, my LCD3F has 'more' (or I may mean 'better') bass than my LCD2r1
post #9362 of 11248
Quote:
Originally Posted by undersys View Post
 

I wonder if the LCD3(C) owners can ask to not be fazored ?
Or do the new drivers require it?
IE if my drivers crap out, can they fix the drivers and not fazor them ?
Don't know , not fussed too much.

 

The only option if your LCD3s need driver replacement is the fazor.  I asked that specific question last month when my LCD3s had a driver failure.

 

That said, while I wanted to stay with the non-fazored driver, I prefer the fazored LCD3(c) now that I've had it back for a while.  Better treble and improved soundstage.  Both subjectively and based on the measurements, the bass is equivalent to my original drivers.  I'll post the graphs when I get a chance.

 

Can't speak to the "factory" LCD3(f) bass, but based on my experience, I wouldn't worry about losing bass if your LCD3(c) ever needs a driver replacement.

post #9363 of 11248
Quote:
Originally Posted by bfreedma View Post
 

 

The only option if your LCD3s need driver replacement is the fazor.  I asked that specific question last month when my LCD3s had a driver failure.

 

That said, while I wanted to stay with the non-fazored driver, I prefer the fazored LCD3(c) now that I've had it back for a while.  Better treble and improved soundstage.  Both subjectively and based on the measurements, the bass is equivalent to my original drivers.  I'll post the graphs when I get a chance.

 

Can't speak to the "factory" LCD3(f) bass, but based on my experience, I wouldn't worry about losing bass if your LCD3(c) ever needs a driver replacement.

 

Thanks for that, not worried either way, I am sure they know what they are doing!.
I hope i don't need a replacement.. mostly as i don't want to be away from my LCD's for a day :D
 

post #9364 of 11248
Quote:
Originally Posted by AiDee View Post

Hmm. FWIW, my LCD3F has 'more' (or I may mean 'better') bass than my LCD2r1

Quick check here. When you say more/better, how do you hear it. Is it more punch/slam, is it a deepening/filling out of the lower end? I am curious about this interpretation.

post #9365 of 11248
Quote:
Originally Posted by bfreedma View Post
 

 

The only option if your LCD3s need driver replacement is the fazor.  I asked that specific question last month when my LCD3s had a driver failure.

 

That said, while I wanted to stay with the non-fazored driver, I prefer the fazored LCD3(c) now that I've had it back for a while.  Better treble and improved soundstage.  Both subjectively and based on the measurements, the bass is equivalent to my original drivers.  I'll post the graphs when I get a chance.

 

Can't speak to the "factory" LCD3(f) bass, but based on my experience, I wouldn't worry about losing bass if your LCD3(c) ever needs a driver replacement.

 

 

 

Graphs:

 

Original LCD3(C) graph:

 

 

 

 

LCD3(cf) graph:  LCD3(C) with new drivers and fazor post repair:

 

 

 

 

 

Actually a bit more bass under 40hz.

 

Edit:  Improved picture resolution.  Still not great - click on image for better view.


Edited by bfreedma - 7/10/14 at 8:39am
post #9366 of 11248
Quote:
Originally Posted by bfreedma View Post
 

 

 

 

Graphs:

 

Original LCD3(C) graph:

 

 

 

 

LCD3(cf) graph:  LCD3(C) with new drivers and fazor post repair:

 

 

 

 

 

Actually a bit more bass under 40hz.

 

Edit:  Improved picture resolution.  Still not great - click on image for better view.

My before and after chart looks similar. Obviously impossible to A-B the before and after but I loved the bass before fazor upgrade and I love it still - I do not find myself longing for the pre-fazor bass. To my ears, the bass is better defined but still full and impactful.

post #9367 of 11248
Generally, the 3F has distinctly more bass 'presence' than the 2r1, so I would say filling out of the low end. It's similar to moving from a dry to a wet piece of gear., e.g. I hear a longer 'boom' with a bass drum, including more of its resonance through the floor of a stage.

However, punch and slam may be less. I'm not sure as I would need to repeat comparisons with specific tracks.

I did post a comparison of the 3F and 2r1 but it may be in the other (impressions) thread.

As well, the 3F may not match the bass of the 3C for all I know - hence the "FWIW".
Quote:
Originally Posted by kothganesh View Post

Quick check here. When you say more/better, how do you hear it. Is it more punch/slam, is it a deepening/filling out of the lower end? I am curious about this interpretation.
post #9368 of 11248
^ An afterthought - looking at bfeedma's and Bigsecret's posts above, a lot of the timbral and textural information that gives bass instruments their distinct character lies in the mids and highs.

Speculating, it's possible the 3F bass is in fact less (as the graphs show in my particular 3F versus 2r1 case) but the net product is indeed "better defined" (Bigsecret) because of the "better treble and soundstage" (bfeedma).
post #9369 of 11248
Quote:
Originally Posted by AiDee View Post

^ An afterthought - looking at bfeedma's and Bigsecret's posts above, a lot of the timbral and textural information that gives bass instruments their distinct character lies in the mids and highs.

Speculating, it's possible the 3F bass is in fact less (as the graphs show in my particular 3F versus 2r1 case) but the net product is indeed "better defined" (Bigsecret) because of the "better treble and soundstage" (bfeedma).

Given that the fazored LCD3c's show more bass output on the graphs I posted, I have to disagree with your speculation that there is less bass. I do agree that improving the table response could make it seem like there is less bass, but it's clearly there in the phones I have.

Unless I'm misunderstanding and you're only comparing the 3s to your 2s.

Just to note, my results may not apply to a "factory" LCD3f.
post #9370 of 11248
You're right, there's a misunderstanding - to repeat "as the graphs show in my particular (emphasis added) 3F versus 2r1 case". I'm not speculating about that, it's indicated by my particular graphs (below 40Hz the 3F tails off, the 2r1 doesn't).

What I'm reacting to is a general perception that seems to be developing that the 3F loses the bass qualities possessed by the 3C. On this specific comparison I can't comment, as I've never heard the 3C. Hence the "FWIW" in my original post above.

Finally, my speculation is that the bass is 'better' ('more' in my case) because of improved treble (and probably upper mids). In terms of perception, more total bass information may sound like more bass period, although I agree it could work the other way just as you say. Anyway, take my speculation with a grain of salt. I'm a social dynamics not a perceptual scientist! Hence the word "speculation" wink.gif

Cheers
post #9371 of 11248

Great bass talk.  However, which one has the best tonal balance, the best sounding mids, which one has more air and openness?

post #9372 of 11248
The 3F or the X.
post #9373 of 11248

3C vs. 3F

post #9374 of 11248
Quote:
Originally Posted by preproman View Post

3C vs. 3F

Quote:
Originally Posted by preproman View Post

Great bass talk.  However, which one has the best tonal balance, the best sounding mids, which one has more air and openness?
3F
post #9375 of 11248
Quote:
Originally Posted by preproman View Post

3C vs. 3F
3F without question
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