or Connect
Head-Fi.org › Forums › Summit-Fi (High-End Audio) › High-end Audio Forum › New Audeze LCD3
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

New Audeze LCD3 - Page 609

post #9121 of 11248
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyll Hertsens View Post

Boy, I seriously doubt they replaced the driver when adding the Fazor. The Fazor prolly improves efficiency a bit. Not sure, and likely not much, I reckon the mods to your DAC did something.

The customer was not told, so all is speculation without hard data. wink.gif
post #9122 of 11248
So Tyll, what's your final impression of the LCD-3Cs vs the LCD-3Fs?
Which do you like the most?
Is the updrage worth it?
post #9123 of 11248
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyll Hertsens View Post
 

What if you were in charge? What if you, as you work day to day buried in test equipment, discover it can be a little bit better with a moved trace on the diaphragm?  Would you say, "Nah, well just take a note and put it down for a change next year"? 

 

Sorry man, they're just trying to make a great headphone. The world moves quickly...competitors aren't standing still...this is a race, and Audeze---like everyone else---wants to win. If you were in their shoes, you'd be working just as hard (I would hope) as the folks at Audeze to make strides towards the ridiculously ephemeral goal of perfect reproduction. 

 

Seriously, we should be glad these guys are making strides...and not bitching about progress.

 

Hi Tyll,

 

I think what they're doing is great and have a lot of respect for it, I really do. You could call my feedback a bit of *tough love* I suppose.

 

I have some industrial experience and I can draw some parallels to the car industry. In the car industry it's normal to launch a new model every 4-7 years. And then in between those big launches you have 1-2 "facelifts". You might know about this, but if not these facelifts are basically minor redesigns, tech tweaks, gentle design changes and so on. Things that are cost effective to do but result in a better product. They rekindle the consumer interest in the product, and makes sure that the company is on the same level as the competition.

 

Everyone knows about these facelifts and when they are launched it's a very polished update, all the little bits and pieces really work together and have been through a lot of testing. I understand that when you're a smaller company it's tempting to "just change it". Especially when the competitors are always breathing down your neck.

 

But I personally think it's the wrong way to go about it. You make one small change and you think it sounds better, then you make another change and you think it sounds better, then you make another change and you think it sounds better.

 

But in reality it was changes 1 and 3 that would have made the biggest and best change. Change 2 when combined with 1 & 3 actually got you lover fidelity. But you never discovered that because you never tested like that. That why it's so good to "experiment" and gather lots of ideas, and then every year you test all those ideas together and decide on a combination of ideas to follow through with.

 

I think at this level you also need to have some "faith" in your product. You should be willing to let your status product sit unchanged for a period of time while you tinker away on an update.

 

You may not agree but that's my way of looking at it.

 

Thanks a lot for the article & video! All the best.


Edited by TwoEars - 5/10/14 at 11:42am
post #9124 of 11248
Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoEars View Post
 

 

Hi Tyll,

 

I think what they're doing is great and have a lot of respect for it, I really do. You could call my feedback a bit of *tough love* I suppose.

 

Your points are well taken. But we must remember that Audeze is only five years old...that's really an infant in terms of companies. When BMW was five I bet they hadn't got it all figgered out. I reckon Audeze will make improvements in their organizational skills over time. They've had to deal with a lot of growth and stay on top of their audio game. I think they're doing a good job so far. But your points are well taken, Audeze probably has plenty of room to improve...as do most small outfits.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by citraian View Post

So Tyll, what's your final impression of the LCD-3Cs vs the LCD-3Fs?
Which do you like the most?
Is the updrage worth it?

 

I hear it's $250. Probably a far more effective upgrade than a piar of cable similarly priced. Sure, it's good way to go depending on your financial situation...I wouldn't eat Raman for a month to do it.

post #9125 of 11248
Tyll,

I agree with you: continuous improvement is the right way.
But I think that an improved product should be identified as it is. If Audeze do not specify the different version, the second hand market will have big problems and consequentely the costumers will have problems in selling the old model to buy the new ones.
post #9126 of 11248
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyll Hertsens View Post

 

When BMW was five I bet they hadn't got it all figgered out.

No, they most certainly did not. :beerchug:

 

For a start they made airplane engines for Hitler during WW2 ...

 

But BMW cars were horrible all through the 70's as well. They rusted and were unreliable, far from the superb pieces of engineering and status products they are today.

 

The turning point in my mind was the BMW M1. And especially when they took that engine and put it into a 5-series, creating the first BMW M5 and laying the groundwork for what was to become the BMW M division.

 

Before that BMW was nothing special really. But with the first BMW M5 came a lot of prestige and BMW now had a new and sporty image to different themselves from Mercedes. Money really started flowing into the brand from mid eightes all through the 90's.

 

But back on topic... :rolleyes:

post #9127 of 11248
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyll Hertsens View Post

I hear it's $250. Probably a far more effective upgrade than a piar of cable similarly priced. Sure, it's good way to go depending on your financial situation...I wouldn't eat Raman for a month to do it.

Audeze charges the $250 to upgrade existing LCD-3C by fitting new fazors, stators and ear pads, but leaving the old 50 ohm diaphragms.

The upgrade will not give the "upgraded" headphones the same performance as the new manufacture LCD-3F with everything above, and the new 110 ohm diaphragms.

I thought about doing the return to Audeze upgrade to my LCD-3C, but after researching and auditioning two pairs of LCD-3F in my home system, I fully upgraded to the new LCD-3F.

Was it worth it? Was for me. I am very pleased with the new SQ. Everyone should audition a LCD-3F and make your own decision whether it is worth it.
post #9128 of 11248
250$?
Do I get 2 new drivers with 110Ohm and the new improved earpads?
post #9129 of 11248
Jones Bob your answer comes before my question:D
So for 250 $ we get a half LCD-3F! I don't understand Audeze to make thousands improvements and the people purchased to early now have probably badder sound quality. I'm a little bit pissed off.
I paid 2000EUR and they want more money for me and in the end I don't have the current revision!!!
I liked Audeze but now after I read Tylls Review and the Fazor Change...Damn
Edited by Trance_Gott - 5/10/14 at 1:35pm
post #9130 of 11248
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trance_Gott View Post

250$?
Do I get 2 new drivers with 110Ohm and the new improved earpads?

Audeze told me specifically "no diaphragm replacement" on my RMA.

Write to Audeze and ask them what they are doing today. Who knows...with the way things change with them, you just might.
Edited by Jones Bob - 5/10/14 at 1:36pm
post #9131 of 11248
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattTCG View Post
 

The article from IF confirms what I suspected when I got my pair of the lcd2 earlier this year. The house sound of Audeze has made a shift towards more neutral and less dark. The darker signature is something that I've always preferred. But the truly mesmerizing  aspect of the Audeze hp, has always been the incredibly extended tight bass. Tyll makes more than a couple references to wishing there were a few more db added to the bass response. 

 

I was ready to spend the big bucks for the lcd3 and be done with it. But now, I'm not so sure. More sparkle and less bass...I might be better off buying and older used pair to get the signature that I preferred. 

 

I don't know about the the current LCD2, when I last listened to the LCD2 about 18 months ago I thought it was too close sounding to my HE400 (eq'd) to warrant an upgrade (too close in the bass department aswell). The LCD3F has a lot deeper and harder hitting bass than the HE400, I know you have had that hp in the past. I wouldn't want anymore bass in the LCD3F, if anything it has too much bass as it is for me. I tried to EQ it down to see how it is but I keep going back to un-eq'd. Also, more sparkle I think is a good thing. If you like the LCD3C you will have no issues with the LCD3F. I compared them for a few hours and I thought they were very close sounding but I preferred the 3F. Either one is great and in IMO if I had the 3C already I certainly wouldn't bother doing a fazor upgrade.

 

The bass on the LCD3 is different to the HE400. It took me about 2 weeks to fully appreciate it. It has more of a real bass sound like a sub woofer has, a more deep, full, and rich sound. The HE400 is more thin and lean in comparison. The comfort issue also takes a few weeks to get used to, after the first week I was thinking I could never live with these. But once the headband loosened up, I don't find it that much more uncomfortable than the HE400 now. It does have a design flaw though the way the headband is shaped, it creates a pressure point at the top of the head and there is very little padding there. Like in this pic here, http://cdn.head-fi.org/e/eb/500x1000px-LL-eb2e993e_BatemanLCD-3refinedJPEG.jpeg, it creates a spring effect pressing down on the top of the head with the headband sides being away from the head. It needs to be a more rounded shape and to follow the contour of the head better but I don't think that is possible with this design. They should put more padding in the headband at least. I think you will have more issues with the comfort than you will with the sound.

 

I would be interested to hear if other LCD3F owners think it is lacking in bass.

post #9132 of 11248

Thank you for the info. I feel that I'm getting closer to figuring this out. 

post #9133 of 11248
Quote:
Originally Posted by mlxx View Post

I would be interested to hear if other LCD3F owners think it is lacking in bass.

The bass on my LCD-3F is one of the main reasons I bought them. It is fast, clear, tight and goes lower than I've ever heard in any headphones. But only there if there is deep bass in the recording. I've owned all the Audeze HPs except the LCD-XC, and IMO, the LCD-3F has by far the best bass of the whole Audeze line.
post #9134 of 11248
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jones Bob View Post


The bass on my LCD-3F is one of the main reasons I bought them. It is fast, clear, tight and goes lower than I've ever heard in any headphones. But only there if there is deep bass in the recording. I've owned all the Audeze HPs except the LCD-XC, and IMO, the LCD-3F has by far the best bass of the whole Audeze line.

 

That's quite a recommendation/endorsement!! 

post #9135 of 11248
Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoEars View Post
 

No, they most certainly did not. :beerchug:

 

For a start they made airplane engines for Hitler during WW2 ...

 

But BMW cars were horrible all through the 70's as well. They rusted and were unreliable, far from the superb pieces of engineering and status products they are today.

 

The turning point in my mind was the BMW M1. And especially when they took that engine and put it into a 5-series, creating the first BMW M5 and laying the groundwork for what was to become the BMW M division.

 

Before that BMW was nothing special really. But with the first BMW M5 came a lot of prestige and BMW now had a new and sporty image to different themselves from Mercedes. Money really started flowing into the brand from mid eightes all through the 90's.

 

But back on topic... :rolleyes:

That's only for cars. Let's remember BMW was a motorcycle company first. Today (last 4 model years actually) they make the best factory sport bike available.......period.

New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: High-end Audio Forum
Head-Fi.org › Forums › Summit-Fi (High-End Audio) › High-end Audio Forum › New Audeze LCD3