Head-Fi.org › Forums › Summit-Fi (High-End Audio) › High-end Audio Forum › New Audeze LCD3
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

New Audeze LCD3 - Page 543

post #8131 of 9880

i also misunderstood you then. can you try to clarify for us?

post #8132 of 9880

I will elaborate.

 

I am going to start off with a couple of assumptions for better clarity. If you happen to not agree, you can stop reading there and that's fine.
 
Assumptions:
- Neither of the LCD-3s or HD800s is perfect. The engineers obviously did a mighty fine job on these headphones, but they have some weaknesses.
- The LCD-3s and HD800s have contrasts to each other
- A DAC and amplifier are obviously critical components, but that is not all there is which is playing a role in the SQ. A system is composed of everything including all kinds of interconnects, interfaces (if you have one), tubes (if an option), power cables, power treatement etc.
 
Expanding from above. The weaknesses and contrasts of each the LCD-3s and HD800s are even more apparent when comparing these two headphones to each other. The HD800s are brighter sounding than the LCD-3s and respectively the LCD-3s are warmer. In a completely neutral setup, that is how they will sound to each other. Also the HD800s have a bass rolloff below 100hz, while the LCD-3s are strong in bass impact. The HD800s create a huge soundstage, while the LCD-3s a smaller one. These are all contrasting aspects, and I gave them as exemples to be included, but no necessarily limited to those alone. I can understand how many will be fine with the way it is. I am not. Through careful system fine tuning, I have always found that I can get either of these headphones to a (much) better correction on their weakness areas while conserving their strengths, which is what can also be called better synergy. This is also why I prefer my DAC and AMP to be as much as possible neutral and transparent, because it's easier to have the end result swing where I want it.
 
However once you've optimised your system for one of those headphones, it will stop sounding optimal with the other one, because of the inherent differences and contrasts in these headphones. In the end you are effectively looking at different systems that optimally suits each of the headphones.
 
If one is happy to settle for the fine middle ground where both those headphones sound as well as they come, that's fine, but it is not what I am talking about. And yes they can simultaneously sound fantastic at the same time. Again not what I am talking about here.
 
Note:
My definition of optimal is the below:
op•ti•mum (ˈɒp tə məm) 

n., pl. -ma (-mə), -mums, n.
1. the most favorable point, degree, or amount of something for obtaining a given result.
3. the best result obtainable under specific conditions.

Edited by negura - 8/21/13 at 6:54am
post #8133 of 9880
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacedonianHero View Post

Good news...we now have a local Stax distributor in Canada:

 

http://plurison.com/index_en.htm

 

FWIW, I've had my LCD-3s since their release in late 2011...no issues.

Audioshop is another stax dealer in Montreal. I'm surprised Plurison now has them... I may have to get some SR009's mmm...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoom25 View Post

 

Thanks. I agree that Audeze (and Hifiman) can push the envelope much further in comparison to the clarity that I get from speakers (which coincidentally also use horns). Increase in transparency would definitely be welcoming. Even off a BHA-1/BHA-2 rig, I saw a crap load of room for improvement despite a fun sound. Although I haven't tried stuff like the GS-X mkII so who knows, but yeah if the SR-007 can maintain decent bass then for sure it'll be on my list.

 

Hopefully I'll be able to try a pair out soon at a meet because I don't see a Stax dealer locally here in Toronto (unless someone knows of one?)

Come to the Montreal meet on the 24th! You can also check out some of the Hi-Fi shops mentioned while you're here.

post #8134 of 9880
Quote:
Originally Posted by negura View Post

I will elaborate.

 

I am going to start off with a couple of assumptions for better clarity. If you happen to not agree, you can stop reading there and that's fine.
 
Assumptions:
- Neither of the LCD-3s or HD800s is perfect. The engineers obviously did a mighty fine job on these headphones, but they have some weaknesses.
- The LCD-3s and HD800s have contrasts to each other
- A DAC and amplifier are obviously critical components, but that is not all there is which is playing a role in the SQ. A system is composed of everything including all kinds of interconnects, interfaces (if you have one), tubes (if an option), power cables, power treatement etc.
 
Expanding from above. The weaknesses and contrasts of each the LCD-3s and HD800s are even more apparent when comparing these two headphones to each other. The HD800s are brighter sounding than the LCD-3s and respectively the LCD-3s are warmer. In a completely neutral setup, that is how they will sound to each other. Also the HD800s have a bass rolloff below 100hz, while the LCD-3s are strong in bass impact. The HD800s create a huge soundstage, while the LCD-3s a smaller one. These are all contrasting aspects, and I gave them as exemples to be included, but no necessarily limited to those alone. I can understand how many will be fine with the way it is. I am not. Through careful system fine tuning, I have always found that I can get either of these headphones to a (much) better correction on their weakness areas while conserving their strengths, which is what can also be called better synergy. This is also why I prefer my DAC and AMP to be as much as possible neutral and transparent, because it's easier to have the end result swing where I want it.
 
However once you've optimised your system for one of those headphones, it will stop sounding optimal with the other one, because of the inherent differences and contrasts in these headphones. In the end you are effectively looking at different systems that optimally suits each of the headphones.
 
If one is happy to settle for the fine middle ground where both those headphones sound as well as they come, that's fine, but it is not what I am talking about. And yes they can simultaneously sound fantastic at the same time. Again not what I am talking about here.
 
Note:
My definition of optimal is the below:
op•ti•mum (ˈɒp tə məm) 

n., pl. -ma (-mə), -mums, n.
1. the most favorable point, degree, or amount of something for obtaining a given result.
3. the best result obtainable under specific conditions.

+1 on this. I have optimized my system for HD800 and while LCD3 still sounds good it is not at it's full potential.

post #8135 of 9880
Quote:
Originally Posted by dleblanc343 View Post

Come to the Montreal meet on the 24th! You can also check out some of the Hi-Fi shops mentioned while you're here.

 

I would have loved to come but so damn busy at this time. I might still come to those shops when I visit Montreal at a later time. What are the best shops in Montreal to visit for this stuff?

post #8136 of 9880
Quote:
Originally Posted by negura View Post

I will elaborate.

 

I am going to start off with a couple of assumptions for better clarity. If you happen to not agree, you can stop reading there and that's fine.
 
Assumptions:
- Neither of the LCD-3s or HD800s is perfect. The engineers obviously did a mighty fine job on these headphones, but they have some weaknesses.
- The LCD-3s and HD800s have contrasts to each other
- A DAC and amplifier are obviously critical components, but that is not all there is which is playing a role in the SQ. A system is composed of everything including all kinds of interconnects, interfaces (if you have one), tubes (if an option), power cables, power treatement etc.
 
Expanding from above. The weaknesses and contrasts of each the LCD-3s and HD800s are even more apparent when comparing these two headphones to each other. The HD800s are brighter sounding than the LCD-3s and respectively the LCD-3s are warmer. In a completely neutral setup, that is how they will sound to each other. Also the HD800s have a bass rolloff below 100hz, while the LCD-3s are strong in bass impact. The HD800s create a huge soundstage, while the LCD-3s a smaller one. These are all contrasting aspects, and I gave them as exemples to be included, but no necessarily limited to those alone. I can understand how many will be fine with the way it is. I am not. Through careful system fine tuning, I have always found that I can get either of these headphones to a (much) better correction on their weakness areas while conserving their strengths, which is what can also be called better synergy. This is also why I prefer my DAC and AMP to be as much as possible neutral and transparent, because it's easier to have the end result swing where I want it.
 
However once you've optimised your system for one of those headphones, it will stop sounding optimal with the other one, because of the inherent differences and contrasts in these headphones. In the end you are effectively looking at different systems that optimally suits each of the headphones.
 
If one is happy to settle for the fine middle ground where both those headphones sound as well as they come, that's fine, but it is not what I am talking about. And yes they can simultaneously sound fantastic at the same time. Again not what I am talking about here.
 
Note:
My definition of optimal is the below:
op•ti•mum (ˈɒp tə məm) 

n., pl. -ma (-mə), -mums, n.
1. the most favorable point, degree, or amount of something for obtaining a given result.
3. the best result obtainable under specific conditions.

 

 

Based on what you've wrote.  How can you possible know when one headphone is at it's optimum level?  I ask this because in my rig both the HD800s and the LCD-3 is the best I've ever heard them.  Are they at their optimum level?  How do I know?  They're sounding the best they've ever sound on the same rig.  Again, are they at their optimum level?


Edited by preproman - 8/21/13 at 11:39am
post #8137 of 9880
Quote:
Originally Posted by preproman View Post

 

 

Based on what you've wrote.  How can you possible know when one headphone is at it's optimum level?  I ask this because in my rig both the HD800s and the LCD-3 is the best I've ever heard them.  Are they at their optimum level?  How do I know?  They're sounding the best they've ever sound on the same rig.  Again, are they at their optimum level?

 

Wow-a GSX owner admitting perhaps his headphones haven't reached their optimum level. Color me impressed.

 

OTOH-optimum-does not mean: their absolute peak potential has been reached.

 

-Daniel

post #8138 of 9880
Quote:
Originally Posted by BournePerfect View Post

 

Wow-a GSX owner admitting perhaps his headphones haven't reached their optimum level. Color me impressed.

 

OTOH-optimum-does not mean: their absolute peak potential has been reached.

 

-Daniel

 

I'm saying how would I know?  It was a bit of sarcasm in there.  Not as much as you put out D

post #8139 of 9880

Exactly-how would any of us know? Wouldn't matter anyway-since it's all subjective in the end.

 

-Daniel

post #8140 of 9880
Quote:
Originally Posted by BournePerfect View Post

Exactly-how would any of us know? Wouldn't matter anyway-since it's all subjective in the end.

 

-Daniel

 

Bingo.  That's the point I was trying to fish out.

post #8141 of 9880
Quote:
Originally Posted by preproman View Post

 

I'm saying how would I know?  It was a bit of sarcasm in there.  Not as much as you put out D

For example I have Hydra-X, that is already on the warmer & full body and bass sound. I've put  a W&M bigg copper coax cable from hydra to conductor. With HD800 that is awesome. With LCD3, for some people, it may be too much of a good thing. So I prefer a silver between hydra and conductor for lcd3. With the silver, HD800 becomes a little brighter.


Edited by dan.gheorghe - 8/21/13 at 1:41pm
post #8142 of 9880
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacedonianHero View Post

While I've gained a new respect for the SR-007MKI after hearing it finally on my (now sold) KGSS, the LCD-3s are still very competitive. Not sure if the Taboo is holding you back? Frank I owned both revisions of the Taboo (II and III) and hasn't been overly impressed with them an his LCD-2s? On a GS-X MKII, the LCD-3s really, really sound tight!

 

Also, I've had my SR-009s since last September and they are my favourite goto headphone. I think you'll love them! The LCD-3s are #2 goto headphone.

 

I've only heard the GS-X for a few minutes at a meet so I can't comment on the real differences between the GS-X and Taboo, or LCD-3 vs SR-009's for that matter, but Frank wrote the following re: the Taboo in his review here http://dagogo.com/decware-taboo-mkiii-headphone-amplifier-review/2. 

 

"The $1,695 factory direct price gave one a fully loaded product that would provide a lifetime of enjoyment, from a company that continuously pushed the limits in high end audio design. Steve Deckert has once again introduced a product that can be the centerpiece of any high end headphone system. You may find, as I did, that it is exactly what your system needs. I enjoyed the musicality and performance so much that I purchased the review sample. The Taboo MKIII is an easy recommendation for anyone who is looking for exceptional performance and value. Highly recommended."

 

I know he's come to enjoy other amps over the Taboo (and sold it), but initially, at least, he seemed pretty impressed.


Edited by OPR8R - 8/21/13 at 2:19pm
post #8143 of 9880
Quote:
Originally Posted by preproman View Post

 

Bingo.  That's the point I was trying to fish out.

 

If you optimise the system (with whichever gear one has) for one of these two headphone, it will sound better, but when you have contrasting headphones such as these two, the other will start sounding less good as before, wherever your subjective preferences may be into tweaking them further. If anyone's preference is for how they sound out of the box, bingo happy times. I just think there's more you can get out of any system with those headphones, based on the assumptions I put at the beggining of the previous post.


Edited by negura - 8/21/13 at 3:10pm
post #8144 of 9880
Quote:
Originally Posted by OPR8R View Post

I know he's come to enjoy other amps over the Taboo (and sold it), but initially, at least, he seemed pretty impressed.

 

Frank went for the Woo WA5 in the end. In my opinon the main weakness of the Taboo has nothing to do with heapdhones, with one exception. It is limited in power as it only puts out 4.5 Watts. If you have 96dB speakers or close you should be good. If not, you probably need to fork out for the WA5 to have a hybrid that can do ALL of:  

- speakers (probably from 90db+ eff)

- dynamic headphones

- HE-6

- electrostats via Woo Wee

 

 

With electrostats I can only get about 95dB before the Taboo starts clipping. This is with a good quality track. I am listening at 75dB regularly and around 85dB when I feel like rocking for a limited time. This is OK for me, but I would definitely like piece of mind it can go over 100dB.


Edited by negura - 8/21/13 at 3:22pm
post #8145 of 9880
Quote:
Originally Posted by negura View Post

 

Frank went for the Woo WA5 in the end. In my opinon the main weakness of the Taboo has nothing to do with heapdhones, with one exception. It is limited in power as it only puts out 4.5 Watts. If you have 96dB speakers or close you should be good. If not, you probably need to fork out for the WA5 to have a hybrid that can do ALL of:  

- speakers (probably from 90db+ eff)

- dynamic headphones

- HE-6

- electrostats via Woo Wee

 

 

With electrostats I can only get about 95dB before the Taboo starts clipping. This is with a good quality track. I am listening at 75dB regularly and around 85dB when I feel like rocking for a limited time. This is OK for me, but I would definitely like piece of mind it can go over 100dB.

 

Until I move to a place where I can blast speakers I'm relegated to headphone use.  The Woo is a nice looking amp though.  As enamoured as I am with my Taboo, I can understand why Frank went for it.

New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: High-end Audio Forum
Head-Fi.org › Forums › Summit-Fi (High-End Audio) › High-end Audio Forum › New Audeze LCD3