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New Audeze LCD3 - Page 498

post #7456 of 9633
Quote:
Originally Posted by analog'd View Post

thanks so much for yor reply

No problem. Thanks and good luck.

 

And to Meremoth, if you start reading about Senn HD800s or Fostex TH900s, you'll see similar stories from a number of people who had problems.

I just want to note that Audeze has the best most personal customer service out there. They support their headphones like no company I've ever seen,

with super fast service, humans available by phone or email at all times, and support beyond the warranty period, often at no cost.

They stand behind their products 100% and are proud of their headphones.

Just try them, listen, and you will probably like what you hear and be able to tell instinctively that they are not defective.

They are a great entry into the high-end phone world and, you know, this is how you learn. It's great fun actually going up the experience curve.


Edited by rgs9200m - 6/8/13 at 9:20pm
post #7457 of 9633
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meremoth View Post

 

All these posts are starting to freak me out a lil bit.  

 

I'm on the verge of getting the LCD-3's, but all these current problems are holding me back from pulling the trigger. 

 

(...)

 

I perfectly understand your fears, as I own a pair made in April 2013 and I feel quite uneasy after reading the failure reports in this thread.

 

BUT ...

 

I completely forget about all this as soon as I listen to them.  Yes, they are that F*** good, you can't even imagine before auditioning them.

post #7458 of 9633

There have been a number of scary stories associated with the LCD-3s

 

1) The veiled effect. This did apply to early models only and I believe any serial numbers starting 26 are free of this.

 

2) Sound that degrades over time. There was much discussion on this and I queried this directly with Audeze who had Sankar the COO directly respond to me as follows (Nov 2012):-

 

Quote:

The performance of our Audeze headphones does not change over time.  In planar drivers in general there is only one moving part:  the diaphragm. Audeze’s diaphragm material is a very stable, high-temperature film that is glued to a frame with high-tech adhesive.

While we did have an issue with raw diaphragm material during a production run early last year, we have since addressed the matter.  With proper use our headphones will perform well for many years, which is the opposite to conventional dynamic drivers where performance degrades slowly, but constantly, over time.

All the headphones are subjected to a battery of tests over an extended period of time before we ship including running it for at least 48 hours of burn in. We also do several high power tests.

If you have any other questions, please give me a call at (number removed) and I can certainly go over your concerns.

Sankar

 

3) Failing drivers. Once again this was supposed to be phenomena that only applied to early production models and since fixed. Obviously some driver failures will happen as nothing is perfect. However if there is a pattern emerging for those manufactured in April, it is possible that impurities have appeared again in the material. Or perhaps they felt that production was working so well they reduced the number of hours of burn-in.

 

4) Inequality of left/right drivers. They are supposed to be a matched pair. As nothing is perfect, there must be slight variances. Even the way the pads vary or asymmetry in your head (not all of us are blessed with wonderful model like symmetry) can all be factors that cumulatively may result in this problem. I suspect though that most asymmetry claims are due to the start of a driver failure

 

5) 2 pairs of the same LCD-3 headphones sound totally different. We had some initially reports of this but this was primarily due to the veiled/non-veiled, and early production issues. I wish to put forward the psychological factor. I do not wish to cast dispersions on any forum members and the purpose of my comment is absolutely not that. But if you think of it logically. A driver is starting to fail. But initially you are not aware of it until it gets worse. As distortion, asymmetry, or any other number of factors start to creep in, you become aware of it. Then with a total failure, your world comes crashing down and the headphones are forever tainted. They are bad, you want rid of this failed highly expensive kit, and replaced with a working one ASAP. Then some days/weeks later you receive a new pair that are now repaired and validated at HQ. They work properly so you are in awe and a new found euphoria as you listen to a fully working pair. As you are so pleased your beloved and expensive headphones are fully working, they sound better than ever before. Remember that any memory of these headphones prior to repair will have been tainted by the bad experience AND of course they were failing and so did not sound at their full potential. I am sure you get where I am going with this. The ONLY way you can state that 2 pairs of the same product sound different is if the same human head as access to both pairs at the same time. Never underestimate the psychological element! :)


Edited by jonstatt - 6/9/13 at 8:21am
post #7459 of 9633

have no fears and trust your ears.

 

if they sound amazing than they are. the used pair i had bought did not sound amazing. very good, but not an "oh, wow" beside my T1s and HD800s; whereas the new drivers were immediately an "oh my lord!". when you hear a pair of functiong LCD-3s you will know it, trust me. if the pair you have sound amazing than yer in like flint, and i imagine it is very rare indeed to receive a pair that is sub-par.

 

I did not intend to raise the red flag with my posting about my single experience. I would take it for what it's worth though, if you tried a pair and where not impressed, it may be worth hearing a different pair, as it is obviously within the realm of possibility that the pair you heard were not quite right. hey, for all i know the used pair i received were baked at 1,000 degrees farenheight on their way to me by the shipper. wtf knows?

 

these are AMAZING cans. i've heard alamost everything and owned many of the current top tier cans, and not being an electrostatic fan I can tell you that without a doubt these are the best headphones i've ever heard, unless all you play is classical. then i'd lean towards the HD800's.

 

Audeze has the best customer service and warrenty policy on earth. there is zero reason to hesitate to get these when you can afford them, and if your current pair sound killer than they are for cryin' out loud..


Edited by analog'd - 6/9/13 at 7:30pm
post #7460 of 9633

Spent the whole day listening to the LCD-3 (once more ...)

 

If I were to post a message each time those impress me, then I would be spamming the thread so hard ....

post #7461 of 9633
Quote:
Originally Posted by CoolBurn View Post

Spent the whole day listening to the LCD-3 (once more ...)

 

If I were to post a message each time those impress me, then I would be spamming the thread so hard ....

:) Glad you like it;) Try the high gain of your amp, it might sound even better ^^

post #7462 of 9633
Quote:
Originally Posted by tupac0306 View Post

:) Glad you like it;) Try the high gain of your amp, it might sound even better ^^

 

No way, I already cry out of joy while listening to some songs with these, am just fed up to have to wipe all this afterwards ...

 

No more crying I said ;-)

post #7463 of 9633

Backorder for 1 - 2 months on Audeze's site...

 

I'm thinking of pulling the trigger, but I think I'll wait and get a pair from their new stock in a couple months.

post #7464 of 9633
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonstatt View Post

There have been a number of scary stories associated with the LCD-3s

 

1) The veiled effect. This did apply to early models only and I believe any serial numbers starting 26 are free of this.

 

2) Sound that degrades over time. There was much discussion on this and I queried this directly with Audeze who had Sankar the COO directly respond to me as follows (Nov 2012):-

 

Quote:

The performance of our Audeze headphones does not change over time.  In planar drivers in general there is only one moving part:  the diaphragm. Audeze’s diaphragm material is a very stable, high-temperature film that is glued to a frame with high-tech adhesive.

While we did have an issue with raw diaphragm material during a production run early last year, we have since addressed the matter.  With proper use our headphones will perform well for many years, which is the opposite to conventional dynamic drivers where performance degrades slowly, but constantly, over time.

All the headphones are subjected to a battery of tests over an extended period of time before we ship including running it for at least 48 hours of burn in. We also do several high power tests.

If you have any other questions, please give me a call at (number removed) and I can certainly go over your concerns.

Sankar

 

3) Failing drivers. Once again this was supposed to be phenomena that only applied to early production models and since fixed. Obviously some driver failures will happen as nothing is perfect. However if there is a pattern emerging for those manufactured in April, it is possible that impurities have appeared again in the material. Or perhaps they felt that production was working so well they reduced the number of hours of burn-in.

 

4) Inequality of left/right drivers. They are supposed to be a matched pair. As nothing is perfect, there must be slight variances. Even the way the pads vary or asymmetry in your head (not all of us are blessed with wonderful model like symmetry) can all be factors that cumulatively may result in this problem. I suspect though that most asymmetry claims are due to the start of a driver failure

 

5) 2 pairs of the same LCD-3 headphones sound totally different. We had some initially reports of this but this was primarily due to the veiled/non-veiled, and early production issues. I wish to put forward the psychological factor. I do not wish to cast dispersions on any forum members and the purpose of my comment is absolutely not that. But if you think of it logically. A driver is starting to fail. But initially you are not aware of it until it gets worse. As distortion, asymmetry, or any other number of factors start to creep in, you become aware of it. Then with a total failure, your world comes crashing down and the headphones are forever tainted. They are bad, you want rid of this failed highly expensive kit, and replaced with a working one ASAP. Then some days/weeks later you receive a new pair that are now repaired and validated at HQ. They work properly so you are in awe and a new found euphoria as you listen to a fully working pair. As you are so pleased your beloved and expensive headphones are fully working, they sound better than ever before. Remember that any memory of these headphones prior to repair will have been tainted by the bad experience AND of course they were failing and so did not sound at their full potential. I am sure you get where I am going with this. The ONLY way you can state that 2 pairs of the same product sound different is if the same human head as access to both pairs at the same time. Never underestimate the psychological element! :)

my experience was as follows: I got in a pair of used LCD-3s. The owner said they had less than 200 hours on them. I have owned LCd-2.2s and am familiar with the house sound. So I did not have a pair that had anything creep in, but found the cans less than impressive from the get go. A few days after getting them, when I had about decided that I was not going to keep them, the right driver failed. I overnighted them to Audeze, they replaced the drivers and sent them back. The headphones I received and heard on Friday (2 days ago) were NOTHING like the ones I sent in. Although I appreciate the scenario you describe and the psychological element inherent in it, one would have had to be deaf to not hear that these were delivering a completely different performance than the failed pair. you may be right in that the nature of the sonics had degraded before the failure, and if so i was hearing a pair that were in bad shape and that is why they were so completely not up to snuff (as opposed to having been lousy to begin with).

 

In a perfect world one would indeed need to have both working pairs on hand to compare unless a change to the drivers had occurred between the manufacturing of the two pairs. Or unless something was wrong with one pair and they sounded extremly different because of that. But the fact is there are plenty of reports of respected, well-listened head-fiers HAVING multiple pairs of particular cans on hand and finding serious differences between their sound signatures. Including LCD3s. Having read these postings about LCD3s, and having experienced differences before in T1s and RS1s, I did not think it a leap to assume that the used pair I received were in fact different due to something besides failure. In fact only one driver went out, but while both were functioning their less than stellar performance was equal channel to channel.

 

By the way, could you post some information about the gear you use/have used etc?

 

thanks!   


Edited by analog'd - 6/9/13 at 10:53am
post #7465 of 9633
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonstatt View Post

The ONLY way you can state that 2 pairs of the same product sound different is if the same human head as access to both pairs at the same time.

 

Much easier way is to just look at the graphs :P  They are wildly different can to can.  Which is almost to be expected with a hand built product that uses the materials the LCD lines do.

post #7466 of 9633

As for analog'd's experience, my take on this is to just look at Audeze-- you were not the original owner, you were not an Audeze customer,

you had a used pair and they did a major repair with no questions asked. If that doesn't lead someone to have faith in Audeze, I don't know what does.

Try doing that with some major companies. IMHO, Audeze is the best and deserves support from the community for their honorable behavior AND their breakthrough products.

 

My own experience with Audeze's products, customer assistance, and sonic wonders also makes me a big fan of them 100%.

I can't think of any company I would have more confidence in buying a product from.


Edited by rgs9200m - 6/9/13 at 11:02am
post #7467 of 9633
Quote:
Originally Posted by rgs9200m View Post

As for analog'd's experience, my take on this is to just look at Audeze-- you were not the original owner, you were not an Audeze customer,

you had a used pair and they did a major repair with no questions asked. If that doesn't lead someone to have faith in Audeze, I don't know what does.

Try doing that with some major companies. IMHO, Audeze is the best and deserves support from the community for their honorable behavior AND their breakthrough products.

which is exactly my take on it. They do not care who purchased them new - they stand behind their product like noone else. I have tried to be as explicit about this as possible: Audeze rocks and their headphones are THE bomb. 

post #7468 of 9633
Quote:
Originally Posted by rgs9200m View Post

As for analog'd's experience, my take on this is to just look at Audeze-- you were not the original owner, you were not an Audeze customer, you had a used pair and they did a major repair with no questions asked.

 

While I agree that Audeze has good service, companies warranty their product, not the customer. Any companies who claim to only support the original owner... might as well say that their products are going to break and we're hoping the original fool dumped it on someone else :P

post #7469 of 9633
Quote:
Originally Posted by Solude View Post

 

Much easier way is to just look at the graphs :P  They are wildly different can to can.  Which is almost to be expected with a hand built product that uses the materials the LCD lines do.

 

I am not sure I would agree they are wildly different, although sure they do vary. But what you cannot get from graphs are perceptions like, it sounds "wider", or more "open". The thing is, if they varied so much, and changed over time so much, then you would typically end up with a scenario where both left and right drivers were very different and you would get a very muddled soundstage as instruments actually moved from left to right depending on the frequency. I am not saying that some of the headphones described as being drastically different aren't faulty, but what are the chances of a fault being exactly the same to both drivers such that they would still sound "sane" in terms of being in balance with each other, yet so deficient to another pair of the same headphones. There is something more to this....I wish I knew what it was!

post #7470 of 9633
Quote:

Originally Posted by analog'd View Post


In a perfect world one would indeed need to have both working pairs on hand to compare unless a change to the drivers had occurred between the manufacturing of the two pairs. Or unless something was wrong with one pair and they sounded extremly different because of that. But the fact is there are plenty of reports of respected, well-listened head-fiers HAVING multiple pairs of particular cans on hand and finding serious differences between their sound signatures. Including LCD3s. Having read these postings about LCD3s, and having experienced differences before in T1s and RS1s, I did not think it a leap to assume that the used pair I received were in fact different due to something besides failure. In fact only one driver went out, but while both were functioning their less than stellar performance was equal channel to channel.

 

By the way, could you post some information about the gear you use/have used etc?

 

thanks!   

 

I would truly like to believe it was a not a lottery when buying such expensive headphones. That one pair could sound so heavenly and yet another so poor. I would also think it near impossible for Audeze to match two drivers to become a pair if the tolerances were so wide.

 

I currently have the LCD-3. Other headphones I have owned or tried include the LCD 2.2, Grado PS1000, Senn HD800, Denon D7000. Right now I am using the Soloist as the amplifier which seems to have varied views but I am very happy with it.

 

My LCD-3s also get used heavily with a Yamaha Clavinova piano. I spent more time finding headphones that gave the most natural piano timbre as this was the most important factor for me. Nothing I tried came close to the Audeze for this purpose. Just as an anecdote, I don't believe my headphones have changed one iota since I got them about 8 months ago. I still have the Denon D7000 and sometimes I compare against it to validate the same sonic differences are still as present. All the qualities that wowed me at the start are still there. I don't think they changed with burn-in (for the better or worse)...they seem to have remained absolutely constant.

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