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post #6631 of 9443
Quote:
Originally Posted by tokendog View Post

But according to my initial and very premature impressions of the LCD-3 compared to my LCD-2....wow.  These things pack a punch.  Clarity is most noticeable...  I'm kind of at a loss.  I need a lot more time with these guys but I probably should have never listened to these.  I need to stop doing that...  I am making a commitment right now that I'll never listen to a STAX setup... cause it's hard to go back once you've heard better.

That's exactly what happened with me. I bought the LCD 2 (r2 bamboo), primarily for use with my Yamaha Clavinova digital piano. And then I kept reading threads about the LCD 3. So I called the dealer and said to him that I wanted to make sure I had made the right decision. No problem, he sent me a demo LCD 3. What an idiot I was. How can I hear something better, and then give it back! So of course, it sounded better with my piano, and everything else, and I simply had to have them! I should have restrained myself from the demo and just been happy with what I had. Lesson acknowledged but probably not learned!! :)  The digital piano (which is a really high end one), is ultra revealing for headphones and the LCD-3s added a whole layer of depth and texture that the 2s did not have. I should acknowledge Decent Audio in the UK who were patient and cooperative with my indecision! :)

post #6632 of 9443
Quote:
Originally Posted by tokendog View Post

 

Possible...if just changing the pads is the BIGGEST improvement, and it only cost $80 (which it should), then that's problematic. :)

 

It would only change the sound if the pads on the LCD-2 didn't make a good seal against the sides of your head. This isn't the case, so I don't believe there should be any auditory differences between the pads...just a comfort/aesthetic one.

post #6633 of 9443
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonstatt View Post

 

It would only change the sound if the pads on the LCD-2 didn't make a good seal against the sides of your head. This isn't the case, so I don't believe there should be any auditory differences between the pads...just a comfort/aesthetic one.

Sphinx noticed improvement in SQ with the LCD-3 pads. I'm not sure if anyone else

has experimented though.

post #6634 of 9443
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonstatt View Post

That's exactly what happened with me. I bought the LCD 2 (r2 bamboo), primarily for use with my Yamaha Clavinova digital piano. And then I kept reading threads about the LCD 3. So I called the dealer and said to him that I wanted to make sure I had made the right decision. No problem, he sent me a demo LCD 3. What an idiot I was. How can I hear something better, and then give it back! So of course, it sounded better with my piano, and everything else, and I simply had to have them! I should have restrained myself from the demo and just been happy with what I had. Lesson acknowledged but probably not learned!! :)  The digital piano (which is a really high end one), is ultra revealing for headphones and the LCD-3s added a whole layer of depth and texture that the 2s did not have. I should acknowledge Decent Audio in the UK who were patient and cooperative with my indecision! :)

 

Yeah, I am also trying to get my hands on some TH-900s to see how those compare but don't know any one who owns them.  The LCD-3 are pretty nice, I just need to ignore the eh, *cough*, slight difference in price between the LCD-2 and the LCD-3...

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonstatt View Post

 

It would only change the sound if the pads on the LCD-2 didn't make a good seal against the sides of your head. This isn't the case, so I don't believe there should be any auditory differences between the pads...just a comfort/aesthetic one.

 

Not necessarily.  There is a bit more to the sound and pads than the seal - it is however one of the most important parts of how an ear pad impacts the sound.

post #6635 of 9443
Which amp/s you using tokendog? The mjolnir I presume. Tried any others?

Ps: bad news...must avoid listening to these phones biggrin.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by tokendog View Post

But according to my initial and very premature impressions of the LCD-3 compared to my LCD-2....wow.  These things pack a punch.  Clarity is most noticeable...  I'm kind of at a loss.  I need a lot more time with these guys but I probably should have never listened to these.  I need to stop doing that...  I am making a commitment right now that I'll never listen to a STAX setup... cause it's hard to go back once you've heard better.
post #6636 of 9443
Quote:
Originally Posted by AiDee View Post

Which amp/s you using tokendog? The mjolnir I presume. Tried any others?
Ps: bad news...must avoid listening to these phones biggrin.gif

 

At the moment, I'm using the Mjolnir but I also have the Lyr.  I haven't been able to stop listening to music long enough to change over to a different amp... =P

post #6637 of 9443

Yes...yes it is. 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tokendog View Post

But according to my initial and very premature impressions of the LCD-3 compared to my LCD-2....wow.  These things pack a punch.  Clarity is most noticeable...  I'm kind of at a loss.  I need a lot more time with these guys but I probably should have never listened to these.  I need to stop doing that...  I am making a commitment right now that I'll never listen to a STAX setup... cause it's hard to go back once you've heard better.

post #6638 of 9443

I'm not quite sure what's going on with my LCD-3s... I just can't seem to get any enjoyment out of them as of late. Granted, I recently went through a nightmare with PS Audio (horrendous warranty support), so I was without a DAC for over two months. At first I thought it was just the DAC needing to be burned in, but now, after several hundred hours, I still can't get any real enjoyment out of these headphones. The best way to describe how I feel is that vocals and mids are more recessed than I seemed to remember before I sent my DAC out for warranty. In general, the music just sounds dull and lifeless compared to what I remember.

 

I've tried swapping the driver in my Balancing Act, but that hasn't seemed to make much of a difference. I'm using KR-PX4 output tubes, but I don't have any way of testing them (or a spare pair of outputs to do any A/B).

 

Has anyone experienced this 'turn for the worst' in sq on their LCD-3? At this point I'm contemplating sending them back to Audeze to get checked out. If for no other reason, it's the 'easiest' course of action that doesn't require me spending mega bucks to get an additional set of output tubes, on the off chance it could be my issue.

 

Any advice would be appreciated! I just want to enjoy some music after being without a working rig for so long, but it's just not happening!

 

P.S. I received my 3's back from RMA on January 2, 2012, so I assume they're up to date.

 

 

post #6639 of 9443
Quote:
Originally Posted by GMF2010 View Post

I'm not quite sure what's going on with my LCD-3s... I just can't seem to get any enjoyment out of them as of late. Granted, I recently went through a nightmare with PS Audio (horrendous warranty support), so I was without a DAC for over two months. At first I thought it was just the DAC needing to be burned in, but now, after several hundred hours, I still can't get any real enjoyment out of these headphones. The best way to describe how I feel is that vocals and mids are more recessed than I seemed to remember before I sent my DAC out for warranty. In general, the music just sounds dull and lifeless compared to what I remember.

 

I've tried swapping the driver in my Balancing Act, but that hasn't seemed to make much of a difference. I'm using KR-PX4 output tubes, but I don't have any way of testing them (or a spare pair of outputs to do any A/B).

 

Has anyone experienced this 'turn for the worst' in sq on their LCD-3? At this point I'm contemplating sending them back to Audeze to get checked out. If for no other reason, it's the 'easiest' course of action that doesn't require me spending mega bucks to get an additional set of output tubes, on the off chance it could be my issue.

 

Any advice would be appreciated! I just want to enjoy some music after being without a working rig for so long, but it's just not happening!

 

P.S. I received my 3's back from RMA on January 2, 2012, so I assume they're up to date.

 

 

 

 

There are a number of things here, but to rule out the obvious, could you scan and show us your frequency chart after the RMA. In January I don't believe Audeze had a complete grip yet on the problems with some of the early LCD-3s. If you can't scan the chart, could you explain at what frequency you see a decline in the frequency response at the mid-range? Typically it was 1kHz for the first LCD-3s, up to 2kHz for some RMA'd, headphones, and we seem to be settling at at around 1.6-1.7 on the most recent ones. Since statements such as "recessed" are absolutely not a typical comment for a fully working pair of LCD-3s I can only conclude so far that either your RMA'd pairs are still veiled, or the end to end chain of equipment you have is not a a good combination with the LCD-3s for you.

post #6640 of 9443
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonstatt View Post

 

 

There are a number of things here, but to rule out the obvious, could you scan and show us your frequency chart after the RMA. In January I don't believe Audeze had a complete grip yet on the problems with some of the early LCD-3s. If you can't scan the chart, could you explain at what frequency you see a decline in the frequency response at the mid-range? Typically it was 1kHz for the first LCD-3s, up to 2kHz for some RMA'd, headphones, and we seem to be settling at at around 1.6-1.7 on the most recent ones. Since statements such as "recessed" are absolutely not a typical comment for a fully working pair of LCD-3s I can only conclude so far that either your RMA'd pairs are still veiled, or the end to end chain of equipment you have is not a a good combination with the LCD-3s for you.

 



I misspoke concerning the date I received them back from RMA. It was actually April 19, 2012. I probably shouldn't keep both graphs in the same envelope!

 

post #6641 of 9443
Quote:
Originally Posted by GMF2010 View Post

 



I misspoke concerning the date I received them back from RMA. It was actually April 19, 2012. I probably shouldn't keep both graphs in the same envelope!

 

 

 

 

Your graph looks healthy and I see no indication of a "veiled" LCD-3 here. So thats the good news. The bad news is that we are therefore no further in determing your discontent with the sound. I don't personally believe that the LCD-3s could radically change over time and for both the left and right drivers to both change equally that the headphones even sound balanced! I would suggest as a test of single driver issues, that you specifically focus on centre imaging in your tests, or listening in one ear then the other only, to determine if both drivers sound "recessed". If they do, then my strongest belief is that the problem is elsewhere in the chain such as the amplifier. The amp may not be "faulty", but just not a good match for you personally...I don't know the sound signature of the tubes etc, to comment.

post #6642 of 9443
Quote:
Originally Posted by GMF2010 View Post

I'm not quite sure what's going on with my LCD-3s... I just can't seem to get any enjoyment out of them as of late. Granted, I recently went through a nightmare with PS Audio (horrendous warranty support), so I was without a DAC for over two months. At first I thought it was just the DAC needing to be burned in, but now, after several hundred hours, I still can't get any real enjoyment out of these headphones. The best way to describe how I feel is that vocals and mids are more recessed than I seemed to remember before I sent my DAC out for warranty. In general, the music just sounds dull and lifeless compared to what I remember.

 

I've tried swapping the driver in my Balancing Act, but that hasn't seemed to make much of a difference. I'm using KR-PX4 output tubes, but I don't have any way of testing them (or a spare pair of outputs to do any A/B).

 

Has anyone experienced this 'turn for the worst' in sq on their LCD-3? At this point I'm contemplating sending them back to Audeze to get checked out. If for no other reason, it's the 'easiest' course of action that doesn't require me spending mega bucks to get an additional set of output tubes, on the off chance it could be my issue.

 

Any advice would be appreciated! I just want to enjoy some music after being without a working rig for so long, but it's just not happening!

 

P.S. I received my 3's back from RMA on January 2, 2012, so I assume they're up to date.

 

 

 

Funny, I had the same sort of response the other night when I strapped on my pair of LCD-3's.

It was a bit like my first experience with them after having bought them... kind of Dull, recessed, and generally lifeless.

 

What I DID take into account however is that I hadn't been listening to my headphones at all for the week prior to this session, just my desktop speakers.

 

So I decided to leave my amp and dac on for an hour or so and played some music through the LCD-3's while I went and enjoyed some dinner.

After I came back, the LCD-3 was back to fine form and sounding like it should!

 

I'm not sure what part of the chain needed to be "warmed" up the most , but clearly something (or all of it) did.

 

 

 

 

Three other things to check:

 

1: Mood - yes your mood/emotional state can play a role in what you hear. 

 

2: Ears - make sure your ears are cleaned out.  Sounds weird but it is one of the very most important factors for any listening session, especially head-fi!

    I've even found that allergies or a head cold can affect what/how you hear.

   

3: DAC - you said you just got your dac back from repair. Maybe something changed? - Can you try another DAC?

post #6643 of 9443
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamiee View Post

 

Funny, I had the same sort of response the other night when I strapped on my pair of LCD-3's.

It was a bit like my first experience with them after having bought them... kind of Dull, recessed, and generally lifeless.

 

What I DID take into account however is that I hadn't been listening to my headphones at all for the week prior to this session, just my desktop speakers.

 

So I decided to leave my amp and dac on for an hour or so and played some music through the LCD-3's while I went and enjoyed some dinner.

After I came back, the LCD-3 was back to fine form and sounding like it should!

 

I'm not sure what part of the chain needed to be "warmed" up the most , but clearly something (or all of it) did.

 

 

 

 

Three other things to check:

 

1: Mood - yes your mood/emotional state can play a role in what you hear. 

 

2: Ears - make sure your ears are cleaned out.  Sounds weird but it is one of the very most important factors for any listening session, especially head-fi!

    I've even found that allergies or a head cold can affect what/how you hear.

   

3: DAC - you said you just got your dac back from repair. Maybe something changed? - Can you try another DAC?

 

 

My initial reaction was the same as yours. I wrote off the lifelessness as the DAC not being burned in sufficiently and proceeded to run it in for approximately 500-600 hours. While there were subtle improvements, they weren't on the scale I was looking for. I left my dac and amp running for about 4 hours today before I decided to have a listen, but to no avail. I still found the music uninvolving.

 

As far as mood, I'm partially inclined to agree with you. The disappointment I feel every time I give the 3's a check and fail to hear the improvement I'm looking for (give it after extended burn in, a tube swap, cable swap, etc.) have definitely left me with a bad taste in my mouth. On the other hand, I know what does and doesn't sound good to my ears, and what I'm hearing now just isn't it, despite what my expectations may dictate.

 

I just recently had a visit to the ear doctor, and was told my ears are clean as a whistle, so I can write that off.

 

The DAC ended up being replaced with a brand new unit, so I don't believe there should be any change. Unfortunately I don't have another stand alone DAC, but for the sake of comparison, I plugged the 3's directly into my Auzentech X-Fi Forte and, for the most part, experienced the same overall impressions as on the dedicated rig.

 

Another member here contacted me stating that he observed a similar trend as I'm describing and even took measurements of two different pairs over time that substantiate the claim. Of course, 'better' and 'worse' is highly subjective, but I'm not the only one claiming my pair is sounding worse with age.

 

I did experience this issue prior to having my DAC replaced, but do feel it has gotten worse. I'll concede that auditory memory is shaky at best, and the two months I was without a DAC doesn't help things.


Edited by GMF2010 - 10/25/12 at 5:53am
post #6644 of 9443
Quote:

.

 

Another member here contacted me stating that he observed a similar trend as I'm describing and even took measurements of two different pairs over time that substantiate the claim. Of course, 'better' and 'worse' is highly subjective, but I'm not the only one claiming my pair is sounding worse with age.

 

 

I am familiar with that post. I had an issue with that discovery before and I still have it now. If there was an inherent failing of the driver in some way over time, such as a loss of diaphragm tension, the chances of it happening linearly to both drivers is almost impossible. Therefore I would expect the left driver to sound noticebly different to the right driver over time and you would notice balance issues. I am not saying there isn't some sort of longterm defect, but as the change would almost certainly be gradual and asymmetrical. I was trying to find that post again with the graph plots...if you have it, perhaps you can provide the link again here.

post #6645 of 9443
Quote:
Originally Posted by GMF2010 View Post

I'm not quite sure what's going on with my LCD-3s... I just can't seem to get any enjoyment out of them as of late. Granted, I recently went through a nightmare with PS Audio (horrendous warranty support), so I was without a DAC for over two months. At first I thought it was just the DAC needing to be burned in, but now, after several hundred hours, I still can't get any real enjoyment out of these headphones. The best way to describe how I feel is that vocals and mids are more recessed than I seemed to remember before I sent my DAC out for warranty. In general, the music just sounds dull and lifeless compared to what I remember.

 

I've tried swapping the driver in my Balancing Act, but that hasn't seemed to make much of a difference. I'm using KR-PX4 output tubes, but I don't have any way of testing them (or a spare pair of outputs to do any A/B).

 

Has anyone experienced this 'turn for the worst' in sq on their LCD-3? At this point I'm contemplating sending them back to Audeze to get checked out. If for no other reason, it's the 'easiest' course of action that doesn't require me spending mega bucks to get an additional set of output tubes, on the off chance it could be my issue.

 

Any advice would be appreciated! I just want to enjoy some music after being without a working rig for so long, but it's just not happening!

 

P.S. I received my 3's back from RMA on January 2, 2012, so I assume they're up to date.

 

 

Dam! I want to add a headphone to my collection and I was in between the TH900 and the LCD-3. I was almost decided for the LCD-3 and now you are making me think it over again... confused.gif

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