Leben's owners request! What I found inside my Leben CS-300X limited. - Page 4

Well, nothing's perfect, short of A. Lange u. Soehne, and it depends on one's degree of being anal. Of the 5 amps I recently went through I could nitpick on most. Note that I'm not discussing the sound quality below, only flaws due to electronics.

1. Woo Audio WA22 - Sonically flawless. Mechanically, the etched lettering had deposits at the bottom of the pits, one of the transformer housings was not properly aligned, and one of the feet didn't touch the surface.

2. RWA AE - Sonically flawless. Mechanically about the most perfect of them all. No complaints come to mind

3. Cavalli Liquid Fire - Sonically flawless. Mechanically, the rear side of the top cover is ever so slightly warped. inside, vertical heat sinks and LEDs not aligned. Volume pot travel starts at 6:30 o'clock and ends at 4:30 o'clock

4. Leben #1 - Sonically cracks and pops. Mechanically, the front side of the left wood panel is raised more than the right side.

5. Leben #2 - Sonically loud. This thing played music with nothing connected. Mechanically, the volume pot detents ligned up with the panel markings for only 70% of the travel.

This being said, I'm an extreme nutjob when it comes to such things; 95% of the people out there might not even notice these aspects, let alone be bothered by them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by estreeter 

This thread is immensely depressing. I backed off on a thread questioning HiFiMan's track record re quality control, but Leben ? I thought one of the defining characteristics of boutique audio (vs the mass market stuff from Marantz/CA/Rotel etc) was that they put quality before everything else, even if it meant they had a backlog of orders ?

Quote:

Originally Posted by mwilson 

Well, nothing's perfect, short of A. Lange u. Soehne, and it depends on one's degree of being anal. Of the 5 amps I recently went through I could nitpick on most. Note that I'm not discussing the sound quality below, only flaws due to electronics.

 

1. Woo Audio WA22 - Sonically flawless. Mechanically, the etched lettering had deposits at the bottom of the pits, one of the transformer housings was not properly aligned, and one of the feet didn't touch the surface.

For $2K nothing should be misaligned ever.  One of the feet not touching the surface is also poor and definitely shoddy work if not embarrassing to the designer. I mean really the unit is sent out uneven?  Ridiculous.

For $3200 the cover should not be warped and again EVERYTHING should be aligned. 
 

For $3800 I'm not even going to comment...

I don't think you are a nut job.  These are expensive unit and there is absolutely no excuse for any work that is perfect.  There just isn't any.  More people need to realize this when they spend the big bucks in my opinion.  sure hand made gear is difficult to make but that is no excuse in my opinion and manufacturers should be called out on it.  Perhaps I fall into the same category as mwilson, but I spent my career in an industry where quality was absolutely expected even on the small jobs and mistakes could often mean you were replaced with someone who would not make them.  Maybe that seems a bit harsh but who wants to see mistakes in your TV shows. No one.

All of the above units should not have any of the problems they exhibit.  If the cover is warped it should be replaced.  If one of the feet don't touch the surface the unit should not go out.  If the transformers or other components are not aligned they should be redone and aligned.  People have to remember this is hard earned money being spent.  The designers are not doing us the favor, we are supporting them.

Quote:

Well, there was this TV show, a long time ago, where a certain Bobby died but somehow turns out it was all a dream, one season later  Now THAT takes balls.

To be fair, I think we've all read reviews in Stereophile etc where the reviewer was forced to return the review unit because of a mechanical fault - in my naivety, I assumed that these were prototype units that had lived hard lives. Perhaps not.

I would caution against some of the conclusions being drawn about Leben in particular.  This thread has clearly become a magnet for some of us who have experienced issues with the CS300XS.  But I do not feel the overall view being expressed here is accurate.  For instance, the first CS300XS I received turns out to be an old stock unit, so this says nothing about current production per se.  It was a dealer demo unit that I asked to take in lieu of waiting an estimated 3 weeks, but honestly an unknown number of weeks, for my new order.  The dealer's unit on hand had only 50 hrs. on it per the dealer, but it might have been 2 or more years old production-wise due to the importer's comments about the tube complement present in that unit.  The first amp had the issues/flaws I described earlier in the thread - significantly reduced volume in the left channel with headphones, and frequency imbalance with speakers.  However, the dealer says he does not hear the speaker imbalance upon testing the returned unit. I'm not sure what's going on there because my new Leben does not have the issue I heard before. 

The new unit I received came in 4 weeks, implying the build was completed in September.  I took delivery a little over a week ago.  It is flawless, to my knowledge, and sounds perfect with no audible issues.  I was the first person to even open the outer shipping box from Japan.  So current build quality can still be perfect, and perhaps what we are seeing is a rise in consumer feedback on forums along with the rise in popularity of Leben.  Flaws are a fact of life with any product line at any price.   Ever have to repair a car under warranty?  It happens frequently across even the most reliable lines.

So, I'll admit I was somewhat dejected in my initial experience, but I can also put this into perspective now, thanks to great dealer/importer support.  If nothing else, buying a fine piece of audio gear at boutique builder prices from halfway around the world is risky.  IMO, Tone Imports and my Leben dealer have been exceptionally good people to work with and have helped me at each opportunity.  I do not regret the false start, and in this case the end smoothed away the bumps in the road  - I actually cannot believe just how good my audio sounds.  I haven't been so excited about listening for hours-upon-hours in many years.  :)

...which brings me to some seldom-praised features of this amp - it sounds wonderful at low volume late at night, and it even makes compressed audio sources sound very good.  I have several bootleg recordings I have amassed over the years in various MP3 bit rates.  (I prefer bit-perfect FLAC recordings when possible).  I have found compressed live audio sounds exceptional on the Leben compared to other amps.  These are real testaments to the versatility and quality of this amp.  Furthermore, pair it with a quality source, lossless audio, and quality cans or speakers and you could be satisfied with nothing more, gear curiosities and desire for new audiophile experiences notwithstanding.  

I am a little surprised by the negative experiences as they are so contrary to my own experience. No problems at all and my Leben has worked flawlessly. Except one that I caused myself.

I burnt the amp, but that was totally my own fault and responsibility. I tried some other tubes with adapters that were described to be compatible with EL84 by a reputable tube company. The tube company offered a replacement set of very good NOS tubes, so I got compensation. I don't know if an adapter was faulty or Leben has an atypical wiring. The result was smoke coming from the amp and a resistor and a capacitor was burned. A great thing with Leben is that it is easy to repair and the cost was very low, I am happy to know a very experienced tube technician. Another good thing came out of this, additional to the repair I also took the opportunity to upgrade the coupling capacitors to much higher quality (Duelund) with a substantial improvement in sound quality. So I am very happy.

The tube technician has extensive experience with high-end tube amplifiers and was impressed by the build quality of Leben, especially in relation to the price that he considered favorable (he was not the seller).

Leben is point-to-point wired so is should always be possible to repair and maintain it for lifetime.

I'm sure overall the vast majority of Leben owners never had a single problem, it's just that an owner of a problem unit is more likely to post about it than one whose amp is perfect. The ones in this thread (myself sadly included) just happen to be the unlucky exceptions.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anders 

I am a little surprised by the negative experiences as they are so contrary to my own experience. No problems at all and my Leben has worked flawlessly. Except one that I caused myself.

 

 

Sorry for the bad luck and I hope the future will be much better. Sometimes many bad things come at the same time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mwilson 

I'm sure overall the vast majority of Leben owners never had a single problem, it's just that an owner of a problem unit is more likely to post about it than one whose amp is perfect. The ones in this thread (myself sadly included) just happen to be the unlucky exceptions.

 

 

I'm not so sure if owners of defective gear are more likely to post than not when they have a problem.  In my own hunt for a tube amp I have had many PM discussions with various owners of tube amps from a certain designer who I will not name and none of these folks posted their problem publicly. I was surprised to find how many folks had had a problem with one of their new amps from unnamed designer and who sometime got the issues resolved by threatening to return the unit for a refund and some had to return their units because the problem was not resolved by a few send backs of the unit.  On a few occasions the designer failed to even recognize there was a problem when clearly there seemed to be.