Noob DAC question

I find it a little strange to double process the signal via sound card then DAC.  I run USB into my m903 and work around my internal sound processing on my PC as much as possible.  I believe the Auzentech Bravura uses the Burr-Brown Advanced Segment PCM1794 Chip, but I am unable to verify this.  That particular chip is actually a decent enough DAC.

The NFB uses the Sabre32 chip which is a slight upgrade from the Burr-Brown DAC.  I think running with optical bypasses the DAC on the sound card and brings the unprocessed signal to a DAC.  Many people report improvements over USB with optical so that may be your best option.  In either case the NFB DAC will sound just fine through USB or optical.

As far as headphones I highly recommend the AKG Q701 over the HD-650 having owned both.  Even a pair of DT990 ( 25 Ohm ) would sound more up front and slightly more bassy.

The Q701's sound more up front whereas the HD-650's are really veiled or too laid back.  Your ear will fight the HD-650 when it comes to trying to make the perfect sound stage which is the primary reason I sold my HD-650's.  They just are too laid back.  They also have a severely frequency dependent impedance curve making them difficult if not impossible to properly drive.  My m903 nor Ultra Desktop Amp did the job well so I placed the blame on the HD-650's.  Once I went to the Q701 and DT990 I never looked back at the HD-650.

Oh and the Q701 is less expensive.

Auzen Bravura ? hu my first real hi-fi source too :p (Using a AKM 4396 DAC for headphone out) 

NFB-12 Use Two Wolfson WM8741  (it was the NFB-11 that used Sabre Chip) .

For Q/K/70x and HD650 it's matter of tastes ... personnaly i prefer K/Q/70X too , but many will prefer HD650 just have a look on different threads here .

Using S/PDIF , will bypass DAC soundcard (soundcard only used as s/pdif transport and don't do anything in the process) .

(DAC chip quality is not the crucial part , it's integration the most important thing like PSU quality , caps used  ,synergie with components etc) a PCM1793 if well implanted can easely sound much better than à PCM1792/1794 or even a sabre chip .

NFB-12 is a good upgrade from a bravura , going step by step is the best thing .

Havoc, don't you think the DAC chip has more affect on overall sound than the PSU, caps, and OPAMP?

For example, my Hifiman HM-101 and Teclast T51 use the same HO chip, TDA1308, and yet they sound very different, so it feels like the TDA1308 is not doing very much to the overall sound, and yet, I can't imagine what other components are creating such a difference in sound, other than the DAC chip, what do you think?

For AK4396, Audio Technica has just released a DAC with that chip.

What is that Auzen thing with the AK4396 and how much does it cost?

I personally think the DAC chip is very important. I have been toying around with several DAC and it affects the sound very much. I also prefer the Sabre 9018 over the wolfson 8741. Sabre has more detail, accurate and sound very very natural. Wolfson 8741 is warmer, less detail, smooth sounding and more forgiving on poor recording overall. It does makes a whole lot diff base on this 2 chipset. You can easily tell them apart even if you are not an expert.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kiteki 

 

Havoc, don't you think the DAC chip has more affect on overall sound than the PSU, caps, and OPAMP?

 

For example, my Hifiman HM-101 and Teclast T51 use the same HO chip, TDA1308, and yet they sound very different, so it feels like the TDA1308 is not doing very much to the overall sound, and yet, I can't imagine what other components are creating such a difference in sound, other than the DAC chip, what do you think?

 

 

 

For AK4396, Audio Technica has just released a DAC with that chip.

 

 

What is that Auzen thing with the AK4396 and how much does it cost?

Auzen Bravura something around 120$ a sound card , the AKM4396 is also used with auzen forte ...

But i believe that PSU , CAPS , and OPAMP etc are more important than the DAC CHIP .

Look at the ASUS Xonar ESSENCE ST it's using a PCM1792 , The Titan HD a PCM1794 . I had Both .

My sptifire MK2 using a PCM1793 a chip DAC that is not soo top noch in comparaison to PCM1792-1794 . Well using OPA627 for all this device , the SPTIFIRE MK2 beat this two soundcard easely in my hearing ... better soundstage , amout of details , separations etc ... Clear Win .

In this conditions i trully think that implentation is most important than the DAC hip himself , DAC is only a component ... it's like a engine , if you don't have a good suspension etc ...

Furthemore a NFB-11 using a SABRE Chip will not soud as good as a NFB-2/3/3.1 despite using WM8741 ...

BUT if you use the same circuit for comparaison , here the DAC will really matter ;) .

If your sabre chip is not in a nice circuit it will SUX .

Burson HA160D use the PCM1793 ... etc etc :p

DAC chips are not soo expensive . But building a circuit that will bring the best to a DAC needs a lot of work , the right psu , the right caps , a good implementation etc etc . 

And thus, if we have a nice circuit with the same PSU, CAPS and OPAMP... and simply hot-swap the DAC chip... the sound difference is clear, so the DAC chip is important, - however the other components should not be overlooked.

The best AK or ES chip overlooking everything else is like this:

but as you can see the DAC chip is very important too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kiteki 

And thus, if we have a nice circuit with the same PSU, CAPS and OPAMP... and simply hot-swap the DAC chip... the sound difference is clear, so the DAC chip is important, - however the other components should not be overlooked.

 

The best AK or ES chip overlooking everything else is like this:

 

 

but as you can see the DAC chip is very important too.

 

 

Problem after a little thinking a optimal circuit for a Chip DAC is peraphs not the best for another one :p , but i don't think that AK or ES are the only good choices , TI and Wolson alsoo provide good DACs ... like PCM1704 from TI ... and what about NOS DACs ? :D  

Audio is too much subjective thing for clear statement .

It's a never ending story :) , find a complet system that you enjoy , and that's all , i am not an engineer or whatever i just want something that sound good to me , there is surely something better than my actual equipement but ... will enjoy it , and peraphs upgrade it later :) . 

But i am thanks full for your Baroque Music thread    very nice things there 

This thread inspired me to buy one of these, so I can hear the AK4396 chip - http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/120795974717

You guys seem to know a lot about DAC's, so let me know what you think of it, from it's specs.

Hum a R-Core transformer for this price is nice but 5532 as opamp ... , well if not bad implented it will sound decent but it's far away from goods OPA ... CS8416 is a bit old as s/pdif receiver , there is a a version with low jitter but limited to 96khz , in this DAC they seamed to use the old one that can go up to 192khz (i think DIR9001/WM8805) are better . (But many high end gear still use the CS8416) . 

internally it's seams a decent entry Level DAC , but compare it to High end DAC using the Same AK 4396 Chip with much more elaborate disign , it will seams to you that is not the same CHIP at all ...

IF you have high end DACs it's not a fair comparaison . 

A fair comparaison is something like AUdio GD NFB-11  NFB-12  , or NFB10-WM and NFB-10ES  , similar circuitery , but both optimised for each DAC , and ... there will be some people that will prefer Sabre chip based, and other Wolfson chip based.