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JDSLabs C421 Preorder is live...
Mar 2, 2012 at 5:13 PM Post #151 of 692


Quote:
syphen606 said:
Its a similar quality of sound between my 8620 C421 and my O2 (With C421 bass boost off). I'd maybe give the nod ever so slightly to the O2 but not enough of a difference to my ears to really notice. BUT The C421 is true portable and offers the bass boost feature which I like for certain headphones (Like my Senn 558's).  I usually grab the C421 so far if I want to sit back on the couch or am travelling and use the O2 when at my computer.
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Thanks.  It's great to know that the O2 isn't at the point yet where it's ready to be packed away in the attic with moth balls. 
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Mar 3, 2012 at 7:58 PM Post #152 of 692
Syphen,
 
I recently got a pair of Audeze lcd2's,and I was looking to upgrade my amp..{currently own the PA2V2}},and i sent John an email concerning which c421,& if I should get.the 8620,or the 2227
I was really looking for a desktop amp-dac...
My thinking was that the 8620 might be a little too bright..he convinced me,that I should get the 2227.
.
Here is part of his reply:
" The O2 is a large amp, best for desktop use. c421 offers similar output
power and neutrality of the audio signal, and adds bass boost and smart USB
recharging. More importantly, c421 is 4x smaller and 3x lighter. It serves
well as a portable or desktop amp"
Dealing with John is a real pleasure ,and I'm sure the tech support,will be just as good,if needed.
 
 I'm expecting delivery of my c421 on Tuesday.
I'm hoping this will work ..and I can find a good quality DAC to match....
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Mar 3, 2012 at 10:38 PM Post #153 of 692


Quote:
mikek200 said:
 
Dealing with John is a real pleasure ,and I'm sure the tech support,will be just as good,if needed.
 
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You are correct on that.  He's a great guy.  Though, this weekend, I felt a little bad because he called me to verify my order in the afternoon following the large tornado in southern Illinois and I didn't confirm that things were OK for him and all.  Though, I hope that he made it through without issue.  Then, we have the big twisters (level 4) that hit Indiana / Ohio, too.  
 
 
Mar 4, 2012 at 1:37 AM Post #155 of 692
I received my 421 today with the 8620.  I currently have an JDS Cmoy 2227 low gain model and a PAV2.  For headphones I have Senn 650, Audiotechnica ATHM50 and Grado 225 as well as Etymotic ER4S.
 
My first impressions are these.  The 8620 is not overly bright by any means.  In fact while I have not A/B them Id say the 2227 Cmoy seems to have a brighter sound but I am going on memory and as I said havent done a direct compare.
 
The 421 sounds very good but I cant say that it is dramatically different or better then my other amps.  A big reason I did buy it was to be able to use all my phones with one amp.  Before I used the PAV2 to drive the Sennheiser 650 which it did quite well.  And the CMoy for the Grado and the ATH M50.  The Ety frankly never really sounded that good with either amp.
 
As to my day 1 test I spent most of my time listening to my Senn's and my Etys.  The Senn's sound good (and I am using low gain).  Maybe a bit more open then with the PAV2.  Bass is good but again it wasnt an OMG experience.  Guess that speaks to how good the PAV2 is.
 
The Ety on the other hand sound quite good.  Extremely open and light.  No congestion and sound as if they were open air phones not IEM at all.  The bass is not nearly as good as the Senn's but with the bass boost on helps quite a bit.
 
As with any component like this it will take some time to appreciate it fully.  So far I am happy just not blown away like I was the 1st time I used my CMoy with my Grado's or my PAV2 with my Senn 650.
 
Clearly I am at the point of deminishing returns here I suppose.
 
But in the end it meets the needs I purchased it for.
 
I'll report back once I have put more time into it.
 
Bob Silver
 
Mar 4, 2012 at 10:14 AM Post #157 of 692
 "You are correct on that.  He's a great guy.  Though, this weekend, I felt a little bad because he called me to verify my order in the afternoon following the large tornado in southern Illinois and I didn't confirm that things were OK for him and all.  Though, I hope that he made it through without issue.  Then, we have the big twisters (level 4) that hit Indiana / Ohio, too." 
 
Yes,things are not going well for a lot of people in that part of the country..it's been terrible for them.
 
I am thinking of pairing the newC421 with this DAC: 
 
http://www.mav-audio.com/base/product/tubemagic_d2 
 
Do you think it will work well?
 
Mike
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Mar 5, 2012 at 7:46 PM Post #158 of 692
I just got my c421 today.  Been using the cMoyBB for about a month with my Monster Turbine Copper IEMs and then my Denon D2000 cans (both of which sound great on the cMoy).  My first impression c421 was..... bright and less bass (not as clear or defined).  I'm curious how long of a burn in an amp requires.  I know with the Denons (headphones) - I had to burn them in for a week or so before they started sounding right - do amplifiers need the same thing?  I got the 8620 in the c421 and have the 2227  in the cMoy... Just curious...
 
Mar 5, 2012 at 8:38 PM Post #159 of 692


Quote:
mm1434 said:
I just got my c421 today.  Been using the cMoyBB for about a month with my Monster Turbine Copper IEMs and then my Denon D2000 cans (both of which sound great on the cMoy).  My first impression c421 was..... bright and less bass (not as clear or defined).  I'm curious how long of a burn in an amp requires.  I know with the Denons (headphones) - I had to burn them in for a week or so before they started sounding right - do amplifiers need the same thing?  I got the 8620 in the c421 and have the 2227  in the cMoy... Just curious...
Click to expand...

Did you use the bass boost on your CmoyBB amp?   Are you using the bass boost on your C421?  Or, are you keeping it "off" to keep the playing field level?
 
 
 
 
 
Mar 6, 2012 at 1:48 AM Post #160 of 692
I got my 421 today,with the 2227 opamp.
With the lcd2,I find this amp very,very close to the PA2V2.
On some songs I used for the comparison however..I picked up very delicate parts of the music ,that I did not hear, with the pa2v2. Cymbals,brushes}..,.strange/confusing ,but nice..don't know how to explain it.
 
It is definetly a quality product,the build quality is worth the price,and the bass boost,I'm sure I will use on my hd598's
I sent John an e-mail about the break-in.
here was his reply:
      "[size=11pt]Mike,[/size]
 
[size=11pt]My recommendation has always been to listen to an amplifier as soon as it arrives. Burn-in shouldn't take longer than 100 hours. The difference depends on your headphones and your ears.[/size]
 
[size=11pt]Best regards,[/size]
 
John Seaber, E.I.
[size=10pt]Electrical Engineer | President, JDS Labs, Inc.[/size] | [size=10pt]@jdslabs[/size] [size=10pt]| Tel: (573) 366-0475"[/size]
 
I didn't spend much time with the amp last night-had to go to work..I am listening to it now,and I will start to give it 100 hours,as per Johns' advise
 
Question:
Have any of you guys heard a rumor about JDS labs,building a amp/dac combo unit,styled after the 02 ???
I am in need of a dac..if his new venture has, half the quality of the C421,I'll be jumping all over it.
 
Looking forward to your comment/,suggestions,
Mike
 
 
 
 

 
 
Mar 6, 2012 at 7:07 AM Post #161 of 692


Quote:
wje said:
Did you use the bass boost on your CmoyBB amp?   Are you using the bass boost on your C421?  Or, are you keeping it "off" to keep the playing field level?
 
 
 
 
Click to expand...


Both of my headphones have nice bass - so I leave everything flat always.  I didn't use the bass boost on the cMoy and haven't been on the c421.
 
I left the amp on all night while music was playing.  It has settled a little - on bass-y songs, it isn't "breaking up" but is a little smoother than it was last night.  I'm used to a sonic full rumble - not tight exactly, just smooth subsonic sound on bass and it was just crumbling last night - that is what I noticed as I was anticipating the sound.  It still isn't as pronounced.  The treble isn't as startling either.
 
I'm thinking they just need some time.  I'm not going to listen to the cMoy for a while and then do a comparison after a week or so...
 
 
Mar 6, 2012 at 12:46 PM Post #162 of 692


Quote:
bobsilver said:
I received my 421 today with the 8620.  I currently have an JDS Cmoy 2227 low gain model and a PAV2.  For headphones I have Senn 650, Audiotechnica ATHM50 and Grado 225 as well as Etymotic ER4S.
 
My first impressions are these.  The 8620 is not overly bright by any means.  In fact while I have not A/B them Id say the 2227 Cmoy seems to have a brighter sound but I am going on memory and as I said havent done a direct compare.
 
The 421 sounds very good but I cant say that it is dramatically different or better then my other amps.  A big reason I did buy it was to be able to use all my phones with one amp.  Before I used the PAV2 to drive the Sennheiser 650 which it did quite well.  And the CMoy for the Grado and the ATH M50.  The Ety frankly never really sounded that good with either amp.
 
As to my day 1 test I spent most of my time listening to my Senn's and my Etys.  The Senn's sound good (and I am using low gain).  Maybe a bit more open then with the PAV2.  Bass is good but again it wasnt an OMG experience.  Guess that speaks to how good the PAV2 is.
 
The Ety on the other hand sound quite good.  Extremely open and light.  No congestion and sound as if they were open air phones not IEM at all.  The bass is not nearly as good as the Senn's but with the bass boost on helps quite a bit.
 
As with any component like this it will take some time to appreciate it fully.  So far I am happy just not blown away like I was the 1st time I used my CMoy with my Grado's or my PAV2 with my Senn 650.
 
Clearly I am at the point of deminishing returns here I suppose.
 
But in the end it meets the needs I purchased it for.
 
I'll report back once I have put more time into it.
 
Bob Silver
 
 
 
UPDATE
 
I burned the 421 in for about 20 hours and have since used it for another 5 hours or so.  Compared to mu inital reaction I am much happier with the amp now then I was at first use.  After the burn in the sound was much smoother , rather silky in a way.  Bass was very tight and defined but not over bearing.  The bass boost is also very nice (I dont normally use it) with an added boost but without the usually muddy tonality I find with BB.
 
Now on the down side maybe.  The 8620 is very bright (or revealing as John calls it).  The amp is wonderful with me Senn 650.  A perfect match as I can hear.  Really open airly sound.  Extremely 3 demensional.  Very smooth and tight.  I bought the amp for my Senns so to that end a real win.  I had been using my PAV2 with my Senns and it sounded great but the 421 has much moree detail and openness.  Bass is "lighter" but cleaner.  It sounds very real to me.  I am very happy with it for my Senns.
 
I also have Grado 225 and AudioTech ATHM50.  Well the Grado is a no go.  It sounds awful.  Shrill and unnatural.  Basically unlistenable IMHO.  I got started in this hobby by 1st pairing my Grados with a PAV2.  Was OK not great.  Then I got the JDS CmoyBB 2227 low gain.  Blew me away.  The Grados sounded fantastic.  Then I bought the ATHM50.  They also sound fantastic with the CMoy.  The 421 is better with the AT's but still is a bit shrill.  I have not spent much time with the AT as I have been loving my Senns with the 421 so I will need to listen to them more.
 
I have communicated with John about this.  He said that reports of Grado shrillness are common with the 8620.
 
I then asked about Beyer DT880.  (I had been considering buying a pair).  Sound was fantastic with the 250 ohm version he claimed.  So I am taking him at his word and I ordered a pair of Beyers.
 
So my early feedback is this.  The 8620 is bright.  And I suppose any headphones that tend to bump the high end are not going to be a good match.
 
While I was hoping to have 1 amp for all my phones that doesnt seem to be the case.  I may in turn sell my Grados and ATHM50 along with the Cmoy at some point and just settle on the Senns and the Beyers (assuming they work as well as John says) with the 421. 
 
On another note the amp design is great.  I use an iPod Classic and Touch as sources.  The FIIO L9 L shaped cable works perfect with the amp as the input is on the right side.  Also by placing the headphone jack on the far left gives plenty of clearance to reach the volume control.  And a couple of FIIO amp bands tie it together really nicely.  A really great little setup.
 
 
Bob
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Mar 6, 2012 at 12:58 PM Post #163 of 692
Hence the reason why many (me included) like to listen to Grado with tube amp, as tube amp tends to mellow out the hardness of Grado.
 
Mar 6, 2012 at 1:38 PM Post #165 of 692


Quote:
bobsilver said:
But I will tell you the Cmoy2227 low gain with the Grados is excellent.  So point is you can still get an excellent sound with solid state.
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I do have cmoyBB with OPA2227. OPA2227 is a 'flat, upfront and a bit warm' sounding opamp to me and it isn't nearly as revealing as AD8620, so I guess it can work out for Grado in some way. Personally, I just don't like OPA2227 that much and never quite care to use Grado with portable amp because of the heavy cable.
 
 
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