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Is Grado evolving too slowly? - Page 4

post #46 of 261

I think Grado does improve its technology.....albeit at a pace of a snail lol.

 

This is how I see it: 20 years ago....they came out with the HP1000 all aluminium, but very heavy and very expensive at $595 which is crazy prices back in the late 80s early 90s. But the sound was too boring.

 

So they release the cheap plastic ones to bring to the mass market, and changed the sound to make it more musical and exciting. That's progress.

 

Then they went with wood for the RS1 & RS2, which improved the sound significantly from the plastic one. Another progress.

 

Then in the late 90s, they released the bowl pads which replaced the flat pads. This improved soundstage a little bit and gives a nice dose of airiness to the sound. Progress no#3

 

In 2006 they changed the sound completely with the GS1000 and gave us the bagel pads. Progress #4.

 

In 2009, they decided to bond wood and aluminium together for the PS1000 and HF2. Progress #5.

 

 

 

post #47 of 261
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick01 View Post

I think Grado does improve its technology.....albeit at a pace of a snail lol.

 

This is how I see it: 20 years ago....they came out with the HP1000 all aluminium, but very heavy and very expensive at $595 which is crazy prices back in the late 80s early 90s. But the sound was too boring.

 

So they release the cheap plastic ones to bring to the mass market, and changed the sound to make it more musical and exciting. That's progress.

 

Then they went with wood for the RS1 & RS2, which improved the sound significantly from the plastic one. Another progress.

 

Then in the late 90s, they released the bowl pads which replaced the flat pads. This improved soundstage a little bit and gives a nice dose of airiness to the sound. Progress no#3

 

In 2006 they changed the sound completely with the GS1000 and gave us the bagel pads. Progress #4.

 

In 2009, they decided to bond wood and aluminium together for the PS1000 and HF2. Progress #5.

 

 

 


Hi Nick,

 

Some would view these as changes rather than progress. I don't think any of the SR series Grados performs better than HP1,2 or 3. Before RA1, there were also HPA-1 and HPA-2 which are much better amps and were sold for over $800 back in the Joe Grado days.

There were not two many really new products coming out from Grado in recent years apart from GS1000 and PS1000. HF2 was a "baby" PS1000. I don't know about the PS500. Can't imagine it being anything too different from what they already have. Of course I might be wrong.

 

-Paul

 

post #48 of 261
Quote:
 I don't think any of the SR series Grados performs better than HP1,2 or 3.

 


More: I don't think any headphone performs better than HP1, 2 or 3!

 

 

post #49 of 261

Are any companies progressing in this field?

 

Sennheiser put the HD800 driver at an angle and claim its revolutionary, their ring radiator has also been done before.

 

Beyerdynamic hit us with all this Tesla nonsense, is that progress???

 

I think Ultrasone have been inventive with their "s-logic" setup, it seems to do what it says on the can , that was progress imo.

 

In-ears have probably progressed much more than full size cans.

 

 

post #50 of 261

Ultrasone?  Paaaallleeeeeeaaasssseeee

post #51 of 261

 Grado's not quite the "evolving" type of company. Their sound is loved by many, hated by many. They're loyal fans are their true business, and I don't think "evolving" would bode well for the company for that reason, it would most likely cause the loyal fans to dislike the new ones, and most business would be lost.

post #52 of 261

double

post #53 of 261
Quote:
Originally Posted by astroid View Post

Are any companies progressing in this field?

 

Sennheiser put the HD800 driver at an angle and claim its revolutionary, their ring radiator has also been done before.

 

Beyerdynamic hit us with all this Tesla nonsense, is that progress???

 

I think Ultrasone have been inventive with their "s-logic" setup, it seems to do what it says on the can , that was progress imo.

 

In-ears have probably progressed much more than full size cans.

 

 

 

I agree with you on Ultrasone, their R&D is largely spent on aesthetics and finding goats from new exotic countries to slaughter and use for their earpads, which changes the sound drastically.  

I disagree with you on Beyerdynamic though, they definitely put some major effort designing the new Tesla drivers.  I mean, all their pictures have scientists in white coats and gloves prodding at the driver with tweezers- tweezers!  And might I remind you that these are totally real scientists and not actors hired to play scientists for the pictures.  

 

 

 

 

On a serious note, dynamic headphone technology is in some ways a bottleneck in itself, and there are only so many ways to redesign the wheel before you realize the first and only real advancement was the circular shape.  Short of using other technologies (Stat or otho or... ribbons?) Sennheiser and Beyerdynamic have done their part to evolve. (almost always in the right direction.)  

 


 

post #54 of 261

am I the only one that seems to notice over the last ten years ALL headphone's have not evolved that much? Planar magnetic yea but Otho's have been around for a long time.  Sennheiser has keeped with its design for years. The HD59X series is the HD 555 series with tweaked drivers. AKG is still using the same design for the most part. If you have a design that works why change it?

post #55 of 261
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteCrow View Post

am I the only one that seems to notice over the last ten years ALL headphone's have not evolved that much? Planar magnetic yea but Otho's have been around for a long time.  Sennheiser has keeped with its design for years. The HD59X series is the HD 555 series with tweaked drivers. AKG is still using the same design for the most part. If you have a design that works why change it?



Audio in general doesn't always "evolve" either!

 

In car audio my two favorite amp brands, Alpine and Soundstream, have older out of production models which are more in demand than their modern counterparts/

post #56 of 261
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteCrow View Post
If you have a design that works why change it?


Because they don't work all that well!  They're not keeping them the same because they're satisfied with them, they're keeping them the same because R&D costs more money than new colors and marketing and they've realized that most consumers aren't perceptive enough to tell the difference. 

post #57 of 261
like the other companies grado been around for some time now. it might seem they been advancing in technology but not much has changed for the past 30 or so years in reality. it just seems that way cause of the advance marketing companies has nowadays. same thing with planer or electrostatics. not much has changed really.
post #58 of 261

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by astroid View Post

Are any companies progressing in this field?

 

Sennheiser put the HD800 driver at an angle and claim its revolutionary, their ring radiator has also been done before.


At least Sennheiser put in some level of engineering. The ring radiator has been done before, most notably on Vifa tweeters, but Senn still had to engineer something that worked throughout the entire audible frequency band. Senn also embarked on some level of engineering and design with their angled driver. It's basically a driver suspended in air attached to four beams in an enclosure, (not just a baffle with an angled section like the T1 or SA5000.) I guess what I'm trying to say is that you are not going to see bilavideo DIY mod type threads on the latest Sennheiser designs.

 

Ultimately it's the results that count. The HD800 has elevated treble (it's most likely voiced to German tastes), but if you've seen the HD800 non-linear distortion and waterfall plots, you would amazed how good they are compared to other headphones.

 

Sadly, I can't say the same for Beyer Tesla technology. I can't seem to dig up any solid info on their motor designs and the T1 measurements haven't been that impressive.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by rhythmdevils View Post

Because they don't work all that well!  They're not keeping them the same because they're satisfied with them, they're keeping them the same because R&D costs more money than new colors and marketing and they've realized that most consumers aren't perceptive enough to tell the difference. 


I chalk to up to apathy and risk aversion. There's no reason why Grado can't continue with their current line's voicing and produce another category of more neutral headphones. I think the demand is there.

 


Edited by purrin - 10/13/11 at 10:44am
post #59 of 261
Quote:
Originally Posted by astroid View Post

Are any companies progressing in this field?

 

Sennheiser put the HD800 driver at an angle and claim its revolutionary, their ring radiator has also been done before.

 

Beyerdynamic hit us with all this Tesla nonsense, is that progress???

 

I think Ultrasone have been inventive with their "s-logic" setup, it seems to do what it says on the can , that was progress imo.

 

In-ears have probably progressed much more than full size cans.

 

 


digital processing has been around since the late 80's i believe. s-logic is nothing new or innovative. just instead doing s-logic or any type of digital processing with headphones or speakers before ''digital'' hit was more expensive and effective 3d sound techniques, by tuning drivers in anechoic chambers and diffused field chambers. lot of modern speakers still use the diffused field approach believe it or not due to limitations of the avg consumer room acoustic issues. the tesla tech beyerdynamic use is actually derived from their first hand custom built dt48's in the 60's. akg is the only one i know that's been going backwards in their design just cause it's ''cheaper'' to make and more profit gains. that's why you never see an AKG headphone cost more then a few hundred bucks. if they kept their old design then they'll probably would be costing close to the hd800's price tag.
post #60 of 261
Quote:
Originally Posted by purrin View Post


 

I chalk to up to apathy and risk aversion. There's no reason why Grado can't continue with their current line's voicing and produce another category of more neutral headphones. I think the demand is there.

 



I think it is purely down to the fact that John Grado is reluctant  to move away from his own sound signature. The more neutral Grado existed before and he was there. I dare say he can produce something similar to HP1000 if he wanted to.

Although I am one of the many Joe Grado admirers, I also have a lot of respect for John.  If he didn't make the change to the product line, Grado Lab would have gone under long time ago.

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