Is Grado evolving too slowly? - Page 10

It is threads like this that really do a disservice to the whole hobby. 

The same arguments, gripes and bullish*t over and over and over....pizza boxes, joe vs. john, ergonomics, pricing, blah blah blah...it's been done to death and it's pathetic. 

What I don't understand is the constant complaining about how Grado isn't pushing "newer technology" or completely revamping their designs...if they did then they wouldn't be Grado, they wouldn't look like Grado and wouldn't sound like Grado. Why should they spend a fortune on retooling their manufacturing simply to satisfy the need for "new and different"? If you want robotic looking hi-tech headphones there are lots of options, if you want classic designs there are options for that too but thinking that Grado should somehow try to be like Sennheiser or AKG or even Audeze is ridiculous. Grado is Grado and if you don't like them then don't buy them. 

Senns are great, AKG has some good ones, I'm dying to try Audeze and HiFiMan and I absolutely love my RS1i...I'm glad that all these companies are very different, I'm glad that some are pushing the boundaries of tech and design (love the sound of the HD800 but can't stand the looks), and I'm also glad that some are preserving clean and simple designs with a sound that many people enjoy.

We are all very lucky to be in a position to spend the kind of money we do on this pursuit. Constantly getting at each other over differences in preference is idiotic.

go ahead, bash me now...

Reading this thread makes me want another Grado.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rhythmdevils 

I don't think people really care that much about the rarity of vintage headphones.  Sennheiser is a great example of the opposite pattern, no one ever wants an HD580 over an HD600 or the old driver HD650 over the new driver.  Even within Grado's lineup, I've read a number of people I trust saying that the new i version of the RS1 with no buttons sounds better than the last run of the RS1 with buttons.  If people were always liking vintage just for the sake of vintage, every button RS1 would surely be more popular than the new i model which looks substantially different. 

 

I do think vintage stuff adds a certain charm if the SQ is in fact better.  But I'd personally rather buy new products if I could find more I like.  I bought 4 pairs of Sextetts to find one that sounded good, and one of them showed up covered in sticky grime.  Even in good shape, they need some cleaning and there's constant connection problems with vintage phones.  I've probably had 10 or 15 different headphones develop cable/connection issues.  Kind of a hassle.

 

I'm not sure about Grado's business model it's pretty interesting.  They have so many models from SR60 to PS1000 and they all have such a similar sound.  If you don't like the cheapest Grado, it is unlikely that you would like any of the other models.  So they only appeal to a certain kind of listener, and they likely sell their pricey models by hooking people on their cheaper models, and getting them to slowly jump up the chain. 

 

It seems odd to me that they would have distinctions between these different models like "Reference Series" and "Prestige Series" and yet they all have the same basic sound signature.  Even the "Professional Series" doesn't sound all that different in terms of tonal balance.  I would think that these different series would be an opportunity to reach out to a different customer base by setting up different goals and offering a different sound, and I think they'd likely sell more headphones if they used some of these "Series" to do that instead of them being meaningless marketing jumbo.  Clearly a lot of people like the John Grado effect, so there's nothing wrong with that sound signature, but IMO either Reference or Professional should be more neutral.  There's nothing reference about the RS1.  It's just a tweaked and more refined SR60. 

 

But then maybe John doesn't really want to sell more headphones, or maybe they can't without expanding.  Maybe their goal isn't to turn into a huge company, and maybe he doesn't and won't feel the need to change anything until they aren't selling well enough. 

Senn px100s with the copper divers are great headphone. The new px100s with the aluminum drivers I don't like at all. There's on case where, yes, vintage Senns are preferred.

I find that Grado's are stuck in the past. Even their more recent "high end" offerings aren't anything special at all. I think a DT880/600Ohm could easily stomp the PS1000. The DT880 just does everything a ton better and that's saying a lot when you looks at the prices of both. Grado's aren't bad at all but their high end phones aren't that impressive. Even the GS1000/i isn't that good for the money.

I find they need to take a more radical approach and just take a note from the current high end brands out there. Grado's needs to start doing some major R&D and come up with better phones. The SR-60i/SR-325is are excellent value IMO but the RS1 just is blergh. All their phones have sounded the same for so long and even the high ends ones aren't truly high end at all. I just don't like their pricing on their phones one bit. 

Well that was more of a rant but I had to let it out.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zombie_X 

I find that Grado's are stuck in the past. Even their more recent "high end" offerings aren't anything special at all. I think a DT880/600Ohm could easily stomp the PS1000. The DT880 just does everything a ton better and that's saying a lot when you looks at the prices of both. Grado's aren't bad at all but their high end phones aren't that impressive. Even the GS1000/i isn't that good for the money.

 

I find they need to take a more radical approach and just take a note from the current high end brands out there. Grado's needs to start doing some major R&D and come up with better phones. The SR-60i/SR-325is are excellent value IMO but the RS1 just is blergh. All their phones have sounded the same for so long and even the high ends ones aren't truly high end at all. I just don't like their pricing on their phones one bit. 

 

Well that was more of a rant but I had to let it out.

Loan me one of your recabled DT880's, I'll do a writeup with credits towards you and quit Grado forever if what you say is true!

I've been looking for a way out for a while.

Sorry but I don't have a DT880 anymore but when I had them I was quite confident they could trump any Grado. I didn't mean to flame them but I am just upset with Grado and their latest offerings. All of their lower end such as the SR-60i are incredible.

I'm not sure if you were being sarcastic or not but I didn't mean to make you mad (if I did then my bad man). I'm terrible at reading people so please forgive me if that sounded bad.

I LOVED the DT880 when I heard them!!!

They are quite amazing for the price!! and to me sound equal or better even VS the LCD2. Just IMHO

I tend to agree that Grado's value/quality ratio decreases as you move up their line, but this is true of any company really. Is the Senn HD800 or the Beyer T1 really so expenentially better than their previous flagships that the huge price is warranted? probably not, the leap in quality is realistically just a few percent IMO, but you always have to pay a huge price for a new flagship.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jupitreas 

I tend to agree that Grado's value/quality ratio decreases as you move up their line, but this is true of any company really. Is the Senn HD800 or the Beyer T1 really so expenentially better than their previous flagships that the huge price is warranted? probably not, the leap in quality is realistically just a few percent IMO, but you always have to pay a huge price for a new flagship.

Sennheiser and Beyerdynamic, at least, did some R&D. Though with the ringing issues the T1 supposedly has, and the apparently painful HD800 treble, maybe they didn't do enough. Likewise the planar headphones out there have issues as well. Every headphone is flawed, but you can't use that to excuse Grado. They've got more flaws than most 

For me the problem with the affordable Grado line (RS series) is that you pretty much have to mod them to be happy. 

I'm wearing a pair of sr225i as I type this, but they have the comfies on.  Why?  I can't wear the better-sounding bowls for more than ten minutes.

But they don't sound as good with these pads.  If they offered something like the G-Cush in the affordable range without mucking up the sound... /sigh

Sadly, I feel like I should have bought the lower end set so I would at least feel like I didn't overspend by $100 just to get cups that hurt.  Now I'm ordering DH414 pads to make up for a flaw in $200 headphones. 

I'm starting to feel like I am actually just supporting mediocrity with my patriotism. 

There, I said it.  Even if I mod these things to be my "perfect" setup, I'll know that I did it because I had to just to make them livable.

I think Grado's simplicity and components are over looked.  For one thing, Grado and a very small hand of other manufacturers have created their own distinct sound (Sennheiser and Stax come to mind).   I can say with confidence that I can tell that I'm listening to a Grado or not, regardless if its the SR60 or the GS1000 (never auditioned the PS1000).  Even when the HF2 came it, yeah it was different then most other Grado's, but to me it still sounded like a Grado. 

I don't know of any other mid to high end manufacturer where you can change the sound by just swapping out foams (S-cushion, L-cusion, TTVJ flats, salad bowls) let alone the various mods done to the cushions by fellow members.  All relatively cheap, and this is just the cushions.  There many threads describing cable and distancer mods to add value and fun.

For those who feel the L-Cusions or any other cushion is hard and/or itchy; they're stiff as hell and itchy when new.  Wash them with gentle dish soap and over time, wash them again.  You'll be amazed how this one simple procedure greatly improves comfort. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by alphaphoenix 

I think Grado's simplicity and components are over looked.  For one thing, Grado and a very small hand of other manufacturers have created their own distinct sound (Sennheiser and Stax come to mind).   I can say with confidence that I can tell that I'm listening to a Grado or not, regardless if its the SR60 or the GS1000 (never auditioned the PS1000).  Even when the HF2 came it, yeah it was different then most other Grado's, but to me it still sounded like a Grado. 

 

I don't know of any other mid to high end manufacturer where you can change the sound by just swapping out foams (S-cushion, L-cusion, TTVJ flats, salad bowls) let alone the various mods done to the cushions by fellow members.  All relatively cheap, and this is just the cushions.  There many threads describing cable and distancer mods to add value and fun.

 

For those who feel the L-Cusions or any other cushion is hard and/or itchy; they're stiff as hell and itchy when new.  Wash them with gentle dish soap and over time, wash them again.  You'll be amazed how this one simple procedure greatly improves comfort. 

Some one who makes a good point. Also look at Sennheisers Design. It hasn't changes since the 70's.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zombie_X 

I find that Grado's are stuck in the past. Even their more recent "high end" offerings aren't anything special at all. I think a DT880/600Ohm could easily stomp the PS1000. 

Really? I don't.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Head Injury 

Sennheiser and Beyerdynamic, at least, did some R&D. Though with the ringing issues the T1 supposedly has, and the apparently painful HD800 treble, maybe they didn't do enough. Likewise the planar headphones out there have issues as well. Every headphone is flawed, but you can't use that to excuse Grado. They've got more flaws than most 

The only "flaw" is in the folks who constantly bitch about how everything is flawed. 

Holy crap, go enjoy some music people (if you can actually do that). Sheesh.
 

I had some DT880s and loved them but they are no where near PS1000 sound quality.

I'll gladly take the DT880 over the PS1000 headphones and it's not a joke either.  But I'll take the HP2s over anything else.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by TwoTrack 

I had some DT880s and loved them but they are no where near PS1000 sound quality.