Is it okay to hit back? - Page 3

My mistake. A little defensive perhaps. My apologies for the misunderstanding.

Quote:

Originally Posted by marvin 

 

I wasn't recommending a particular course of action, just explaining one of the reasons why schools generally have a "zero tolerance" policy on violence. And while effectively fighting back is a reasonable approach for an individual, it doesn't help the school reduce the total amount of bullying when the bully moves onto a target less able to defend themselves. 

 

  

And if the bully doesn't get "put in their place"? Poor target selection happens, but bullies often have the upper hand in physical strength and popularity with their peers. 

  

 

You're assuming the school's approach to violence is designed to reduce bullying. It probably isn't. As far as I can tell, it's designed to keep order and to minimize the school's exposure to lawsuits.

 

 

Not intended to be a derailment. It is intended to be an example of a policy where acquiescing to unjustified violence is the safer course of action for the majority, even if some individuals are able to mount a more effective response.

One thing with bullies given I used to be friends and foes with them: if they want to pick on you, not without a fight. Some people assume that you are weak when you prefer to stay polite. Sometimes you don't even have to fight. Just look them in the eyes without fear and they are warned...

the school is right and heres why, because if your son has a big red mark where he was hit you can tell ho was hit.  if the other child does not then you cant confirm he was hit.  if your kid runs up and claims he was hit and has a mark to prove it then the school can actually do something about it.

if they both have red marks then its one kids word against another and they can do nothing about it.

I think the best way to tell the child what options he/she has, and to think which to choose (eg. can you win the fight?

there are many ways to "hit back", think..

Quote:

Originally Posted by mark2410 

the school is right and heres why, because if your son has a big red mark where he was hit you can tell ho was hit.  if the other child does not then you cant confirm he was hit.  if your kid runs up and claims he was hit and has a mark to prove it then the school can actually do something about it.

 

if they both have red marks then its one kids word against another and they can do nothing about it.

This is true only if it's the first day of school and/or if the teachers have no idea who their students are.

In the 8th grade, I was in a fight that ended rather badly for both us. I got a busted lip, bloody nose and a black eye. I broke his nose and chipped one of his front teeth - which his mother had the nerve of asking my parents to pay. At the end of the fight we were both taken to the principles office. He got suspended for a month and I got nothing. Bad thing for me was I showed up to school all f'd up the next day while he had a whole month to heal and not show his face. Now...why didn't I get any punishment?

Even though he accused me of starting it and being more violent (all false), all the faculty knew I was a good kid and that this prick was a trouble maker. I had a 4.0 GPA. He was failing. That was my first fight since I had been at that school (three years). That was his second that year. Usually most teachers know their students well enough to decide who started what.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kn19h7 

I think the best way to tell the child what options he/she has, and to think which to choose (eg. can you win the fight?

there are many ways to "hit back", think..

Agreed, many ways...
 

Here in Mexico its quite easy, as everybody is taught from an early age this: "respect of others is the best way to keep your teeth", so teachers and principals punish kids when they fight but, they know that its a rough world and you either get tough or die.

I have no tolerance of useless adults at this point. It's true, the bully always gets the other kid back immediately after school.

I'll probably make sure my own kids are versed in martial arts and most likely some form of sword use. Again, eye for an arm.

For schools, it's the issue of attracting publicity. No school would want to deal with a lawsuit regarding bullying, as that would draw instant scrutiny on the state level. If someone levies a lawsuit against a school for bullying, what would you think of its image? I'd instantly switch my kids out to a different district.

Like everyone else is saying, teach your kid how to fight and defend himself.  Just as importantly, though, teach him how to avoid those kinds of situations, and to learn situational awareness.  If you don't teach your kid to protect himself (and by extension, his family and friends), no one will.  A bit of scolding and even suspensions is a small price to pay for having strong character.

Society frowns about that kind of thing now, but the authorities will never arrive, and in many cases may not even intervene (see Rodney King riots), until blood is already cold on the pavement.

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Speaking of martial arts, I think the philosophy of martial arts fit perfectly for this situation. I don't remember what exactly it is in English but martial arts is supposed to be used for self protection and protecting the weak.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JadeEast 

 

I simply can't in good conscious let this go without comment. A grown adult making the claim that they would curbstomp a 5 year old child is disturbing and completely wrong. That's an incredibly violent and simply evil physical action that if actually took place would certainly kill a 5 year old. This is a ridiculous comment from a grown man.

There's that old saying, "Pick on someone your own size". Maybe shrimant feels it applies to mental capacity, as well.

The worst thing about his post is it implies that he has reproduced.

I have two boys 3 and 6.  As a parent, we have a responsibility to bestow what is right and wrong and ensure that they live long after we pass away.  Adding violence upon violence makes matters worse.  If the child is told he's weak and a sissy by those who look after him/her for walking away and not hitting back, yes, it can create psychological and self-esteem issues down the road. However, if a child is told that one should not hit back because of the many unforeseen consequences and is taught that ultimately it's not worth the consequences, the very courage to execute the decision has a much more positive impact over the decision of "eye for an eye" mentality.  You do all what you can like what other posts have mentioned: 1) Tell teachers 2) Authorities, 3) Communicate with bullies parents...etc. 

Yes, there are those exceptions, in everything.  Sometimes, the situation doesn't have an option to walk away.  You may win, you may lose, you may even get injured very badly or worse die.  But, if you think you're going to gain any respect from the guy/gal you knocked down - think again. 

Times have changed a lot.  There's no honor on today's society.  I lost a good friend a long time ago  He won the fight -easily, but in the end lost his life because the guy harassing him stalked him and shot him three times in the chest a month later after the fight.  

Growing up, I guess I was lucky because I was always on the big build size for an Asian, and of course everyone assumed I know martial arts, which I did.  I never had to have anyone else's blood on my fists.  It doesn't matter how good a fighter one is, one will never stop a bullet or have bones stronger than steel or oak.  But I made friends and hung out with people that had my back and told me "it's not worth it".  School is a very lonely place to be let alone the rest of ones life without friends. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by alphaphoenix 

I have two boys 3 and 6.  As a parent, we have a responsibility to bestow what is right and wrong and ensure that they live long after we pass away.  Adding violence upon violence makes matters worse.  If the child is told he's weak and a sissy by those who look after him/her for walking away and not hitting back, yes, it can create psychological and self-esteem issues down the road. However, if a child is told that one should not hit back because of the many unforeseen consequences and is taught that ultimately it's not worth the consequences, the very courage to execute the decision has a much more positive impact over the decision of "eye for an eye" mentality.  You do all what you can like what other posts have mentioned: 1) Tell teachers 2) Authorities, 3) Communicate with bullies parents...etc. 

 

Yes, there are those exceptions, in everything.  Sometimes, the situation doesn't have an option to walk away.  You may win, you may lose, you may even get injured very badly or worse die.  But, if you think you're going to gain any respect from the guy/gal you knocked down - think again. 

 

Times have changed a lot.  There's no honor on today's society.  I lost a good friend a long time ago  He won the fight -easily, but in the end lost his life because the guy harassing him stalked him and shot him three times in the chest a month later after the fight.  

 

Growing up, I guess I was lucky because I was always on the big build size for an Asian, and of course everyone assumed I know martial arts, which I did.  I never had to have anyone else's blood on my fists.  It doesn't matter how good a fighter one is, one will never stop a bullet or have bones stronger than steel or oak.  But I made friends and hung out with people that had my back and told me "it's not worth it".  School is a very lonely place to be let alone the rest of ones life without friends. 

 

 

Refreshing to read something in this thread from someone who is actually a parent - some of the comments from the younger members (with no off-spring) so far have been "enlightening" to say the least.  Believe me - when you are actually a parent and confronting the situation, your viewpoint changes rapidly.

I'm now 44 - just on 6 foot.  Going though school, I was small and slender, until I hit about 14.  I know what it's like to be bullied - because you are smaller and different.  When I got to 14, the wrong person (2 years older than I was) picked on me once to often in high-school.  I knocked him out.  Yes the bullying stopped from that point on - but 30 years later I still regret doing it.  I was very lucky I wasn't expelled.  The simple thing is though - I could have killed him.  Read that phrase and explore the truth in it - I COULD HAVE KILLED HIM.  Countering violence with violence is not the answer IMO.

I have a 10 year old who is exactly the same build I was - and he gets bullied.  We've taught him to walk away - he's in a Catholic school and their rule is not to hit back.  We have to follow those rules.  It's hard on Mathew - but rules are rules.  And we talk about it if/when it happens - and we make sure the school is informed.  Unfortunately it's the parents of the bullies that should be disciplined - they have no idea of the harm that their offspring are causing.

Our answer for the future is going to be enrolling Mathew in a martial arts course next year.  We're doing it for self-esteem more than anything (and because he's shown an interest).  The ability to defend himself is a big bonus.  But it's defence - not retaliation.  There is a huge difference.

To the ones saying "hit back" - that's not defence - it's retaliation.  Retaliation can lead to escalation.  As much as I'd love to tell Mathew to hit back (it's my natural inclination) it solves no problems.  Better to do what the school tells you to do - report it, and then hound the school to follow up with the parents of the bully.

But back to the OP - you've got a 5 yo.  Teaching them to hit back is the last thing you should be doing.  Let the school know - and make sure THEY follow up on it.

Seeing all these different opinions is very interesting to say the least. As a 15 year old, I've had plenty of bullying in the past. IMO, if it turns violent, and you are stronger than the bully, then beat him up, or at least scare him.

I once had a bully who kept on harassing me and pretty much everyone in the class. When I told him to stop it didn't work, when the teacher told him to stop it didn't work, so I had no choice but to stand up to him. Heres how it went, he started harassing me by hitting me with this tiny stick thing (it was during the environmental education class), and I snatched it out of his hands, so he got another one of those sticks and started hitting me again, the cycle repeated until he was eventually corner in the class shed. Then what I honestly didn't expected happened. He grabbed a pair of those giant gardening scissors and pointed it towards me, saying :" Whatcha gonna do now ? " He could've easily caused some serious damage if it was somebody else but thankfully the bully was slow and inexperienced with fighting. It took me less than 1 minute to take the gardening scissors from him. When I got the scissors off of him, I chose to throw the scissors away and stared into his eyes. That immediately crushed his confidence and he ran away saying :" Miss, he is trying to hurt me. " 

Later on, he was shameless enough to challenge me to a fight, being the teenager I am, I obviously accepted. Instead he never showed up.

This just goes to show bullies are actually a lot weaker than what they want you to think they are. If someone think that I'm just acting the way I am because I have a physically advantage, heres another story. I grew up with a violent dad and what he does to me is nothing short of bullying, I was not physically stronger than him. We still shared a father and son bond and that wouldn't change, but physically discipline (or so he says) me for not getting good grades is just ridiculous, especially considering I skipped a grade due to moving to a different city, but eventually that stopped too, after I told my dad the next time he hits me, I will protect myself by hitting back, even though I knew he will beat me up.

TL;DR version, if you don't stand up to the bullies, they would only stop when they feel like it, they need to be taught that they can't have their way with you.