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Sennheiser RS220 Availability? - Page 20

post #286 of 459

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by GiacomoHoldini View Post

Yes, and it's also frustrating we haven't heard anything from Sennheiser regarding the issue. I'd like to know if they're planning a recall, or if they just expect consumers to take a gamble with their purchases.

Hello ?   Why would Sennheiser plan a recall, or have any opinion at all about a problem that they do not know exists.

 

Every single person in this thread has spent several times as much time speculating about the problem, then it would take to simply call them and ask about it (or email).

 

Since no one has done that, Sennheiser is obviously not aware of a problem.

 

By the way, the battery issue is the perfect example of a problem that a) is not a defect, and b) requires the user to get some input other than just using the product.

 

I remember that Dish Network had a big problem with people returning remote controls, when the problem was dead batteries (evidently somewhere along the line, sealed "old stock" batteries ended up in the boxes).   They eventually added low battery warning software to the receivers, just to avoid the cost of perfectly good remotes being returned.

 

By the way, don't misunderstand me... people returning perfectly good products - rather than calling tech support - is a really great thing.   As a result, I am right now listening to a perfect pair of RS180 headphones "factory refurbished" with full warranty for US$150 less than the new price.   So, very soon, your perfect condition RS220s should be available "factory refurbished"...


Edited by kstuart - 2/29/12 at 5:05pm
post #287 of 459
Quote:
Originally Posted by kstuart View Post

 

Hello ?   Why would Sennheiser plan a recall, or have any opinion at all about a problem that they do not know exists.

 

Every single person in this thread has spent several times as much time speculating about the problem, then it would take to simply call them and ask about it (or email).

 

Since no one has done that, Sennheiser is obviously not aware of a problem.

 

By the way, the battery issue is the perfect example of a problem that a) is not a defect, and b) requires the user to get some input other than just using the product.

 

I remember that Dish Network had a big problem with people returning remote controls, when the problem was dead batteries (evidently somewhere along the line, sealed "old stock" batteries ended up in the boxes).   They eventually added low battery warning software to the receivers, just to avoid the cost of perfectly good remotes being returned.

 

By the way, don't misunderstand me... people returning perfectly good products - rather than calling tech support - is a really great thing.   As a result, I am right now listening to a perfect pair of RS180 headphones "factory refurbished" with full warranty for US$150 less than the new price.   So, very soon, your perfect condition RS220s should be available "factory refurbished"...


Your general point is a good one.  But it could have been made just as well if not better without the hostile/lecturing tone.  A little more civility here, please.  Thank you.

 

post #288 of 459

Following up on kstuart's good suggestion, I contacted Sennheiser.  Here is the correspondence, in case this is useful information.  (I have the permission of Sennheiser's Eric Palonen to post this.  He indicated that his headfi handle is TheDeliveryMan).

 

 

*****************************

My email to Sennheiser:

 

Dear Sennheiser -- I am writing to alert you to difficulties that several people have experienced with the RS 220 headphones. Please see this thread: http://www.head-fi.org/t/574847/sennheiser-rs220-availability/105. Can you tell me anything about the dropout issue and hum issue that people in that thread have commented about? If someone were to purchase an RS 220 and encountered these issues what would you recommend they do (other than returning the unit to the seller?) Thanks.

 

 

Sennheiser's response:


Hello-

Thanks for writing.

The RS 220 signal should be quite pristine, however, if a hum is created
in the signal chain, the transmitter will indeed pass it along to the
headphones. If we can deduce that it comes from the headphone itself,
then a Sennheiser office will gladly look at it for you.

The RS 220 uses DSSS to get a lot of information down the "pipe" via 2.4
GHz wireless link. There is a lot of information being sent at one time,
so although going through walls and ceilings is possible, it is
recommended that the user maintain the clearest line of sight to the
transmtter as possible. Each user's environment will be different, so
how the radio waves propagate within that environment may change, and
thus the range may vary from user to user.

The Kleer signal from the RS 160/170/180 is indeed more robust, but the
fidelity of DSSS is certainly better, which is the main goal with the RS
220.

_________________

Eric Palonen
Sr. Product Specialist
Sennheiser Consumer Electronics

 

 

******************************

 

 

 

So, Sennheiser is willing to take a look at units in case of problems, which is encouraging.

 

 

 

 

post #289 of 459
Quote:
Originally Posted by otinkyad View Post

Your general point is a good one.  But it could have been made just as well if not better without the hostile/lecturing tone.  A little more civility here, please.  Thank you.

Agreed. Kstuart, just because members who have posted in this thread have not yet contacted Sennheiser about the dropout/whine/hum issue (except for otinkyad, who obviously just has), you can't say with any reasonable certainty that Sennheiser "obviously" doesn't know about the issue. All you can do is reasonably speculate that they might not, based on incomplete information. I presume you have not contacted all purchasers of the RS220 to see whether or not they have contacted Sennheiser about the issue. Additionally, a number of members here have returned the model for the very issues discussed in this thread. It is entirely possible if enough vendors are having to eat the cost of returned units for the same reasons (dropouts, whine/hum), they are going to pass this information along to Sennheiser, and/or stop carrying the units. Or, if the vendors are expecting Sennheiser to replace units returned as defective, Sennheiser could be made aware that way. Additionally, we do know that Sennheiser reps pay attention to what goes on at Head-Fi. There are at least two reps who have member names here. It is entirely possible they have seen this thread already, even prior to otinkyad passing along the link. There is more than one way for Sennheiser to get wind of the information. As such, while a recall might be unlikely, I don't think it is unreasonable to have wondered (at least prior to otinkyad's post) if one might be in the works - no less reasonable than your own declaration, at any rate.

Moreover, for all your harping about contacting Sennheiser customer service, the reply otinkyad received demonstrates the kind of response a number of us expected, which doesn't really help solve the issue, although it does indicate a recall is likely not forthcoming, which is useful information in itself. Palonen's primary recommendation is to maintain a line of sight between the headset and the transmitter. Several members here have experienced dropouts while in the same room as the transmitter, so distance and obstacles don't seem to be the issue. His comment on the "robust" Kleer signal versus the "better fidelity" DSSS signal hints at what might be the actual problem, which a lot of members have wondered about - namely that in the name of better SQ (a great goal, in and of itself), the RS220 is less adept at handling a crowded wi-fi "neighborhood" than its Kleer-based forebears. I appreciate that Palonen took the time to address the issue, and that Sennheiser is willing to look at problematic units, but there don't appear to be any quick or easy fixes here, unless that battery thing really does solve the problem.

And yes...for the record, I am speculating. That's all I can do, since I don't yet own the RS220, and am trying to figure out if it's a purchase I want to make.
Edited by GiacomoHoldini - 3/1/12 at 12:34pm
post #290 of 459

I was not the one who used the term "frustrating" in regards to Sennheiser's lack of response to ... nothing.

Quote:
Yes, and it's also frustrating we haven't heard anything from Sennheiser regarding the issue. I'd like to know if they're planning a recall, or if they just expect consumers to take a gamble with their purchases.

It's odd to hear "recall" and "expect consumers to take a gamble" prior to any evidence that one person has reported a problem to Sennheiser.

 

It would be different if this was like one of the many electronics products that have flaws which corporations fail to fix or even acknowledge (or if it burst into flames !)

 

But two or three people having a problem is hardly a trend - when a roughly equivalent number in this thread don't have a problem.

 

That is what I was replying to.

 

Consumers who spend their hard-earned money on a product certainly have the right to do whatever is best for them, in regards to any issues they encounter - they do not have any obligation to take any particular course of action.

 

But if they don't report the problem, no one has the right to jump to conclusions about the problem, either.

 


Edited by kstuart - 3/1/12 at 8:54pm
post #291 of 459
Quote:
Originally Posted by kstuart View Post

But two or three people having a problem is hardly a trend - when a roughly equivalent number in this thread don't have a problem.

In reading this, it occurred to me I'd lost track of just how many people had reported problems, versus people who didn't. So, I went back through this thread, starting with the very first reports from people who bought the product. I've tried to be as accurate as possible, but I can't rule out the possibility I made a mistake here or there. That said, here are the numbers I came up with:

- In this thread, twelve people total have reported having acquired the RS220. One person reported a return and a replacement unit. Therefore, we have reports on thirteen different RS220 units.

- Five units were reported as having problems with micro-drops. One unit was reported as having a problem with micro drops and hum/whine. Two units were reported as having hum/whine, but no micro-drops. Five units were reported as having no problem.

- Conflating the problems, eight out of thirteen units were reported as having problems with dropouts/whine/hum, or a total 61% of the reported units.

Granted, this is all anecdotal evidence, from a small, non-random sample. Clearly this is not statistically valid data. Still, it's the best we have. People can choose how much stock they put into it, but when 61% of the reported units in this thread are experiencing some kind of sonic issue that impedes the enjoyment of the headphone, it is apparent why it seems like the RS220 might be a problematic product.

Also, I was surprised to see that three people (including Otinkyad) had tried to contact Sennheiser customer support by e-mail. Two of them were before kstuart joined the thread. One person received an automated reply and subsequently decided to return his product. One never told us what happened. And we know what Otinkyad found out.
Edited by GiacomoHoldini - 3/2/12 at 12:55am
post #292 of 459

Hey guys.  Not sure if anyone is browsing this thread considering the RS220s but I would like to humbly recommend comparing them against the Sony MDR-DS7500 HDMI 24/192 headset if you have to go wireless.  I bet the next revision of the RS220s will hit the hammer on the nail.  Best of luck,

 

George

post #293 of 459
George, how do you feel the Sony compares to the Sennheisers you've heard? Have you been able to compare it to the RS220? I've not heard any wireless Sony models, but my take after hearing three different wired Sony studio monitor models (V6, V600 and V900) is that Sonys tend to very clear (sometimes uncomfortably so) on the top end, and have pretty modest bass response. Headroom doesn't have a FR graph of the DS7500, but the DS6000 looks altogether different, and not necessarily for the better: much less high end, but also less bass, too. What do you think?

280
post #294 of 459
Quote:
Originally Posted by GiacomoHoldini View Post


In reading this, it occurred to me I'd lost track of just how many people had reported problems, versus people who didn't. So, I went back through this thread, starting with the very first reports from people who bought the product. I've tried to be as accurate as possible, but I can't rule out the possibility I made a mistake here or there. That said, here are the numbers I came up with:
- In this thread, twelve people total have reported having acquired the RS220. One person reported a return and a replacement unit. Therefore, we have reports on thirteen different RS220 units.
- Five units were reported as having problems with micro-drops. One unit was reported as having a problem with micro drops and hum/whine. Two units were reported as having hum/whine, but no micro-drops. Five units were reported as having no problem.
- Conflating the problems, eight out of thirteen units were reported as having problems with dropouts/whine/hum, or a total 61% of the reported units.
Granted, this is all anecdotal evidence, from a small, non-random sample. Clearly this is not statistically valid data. Still, it's the best we have. People can choose how much stock they put into it, but when 61% of the reported units in this thread are experiencing some kind of sonic issue that impedes the enjoyment of the headphone, it is apparent why it seems like the RS220 might be a problematic product.
Also, I was surprised to see that three people (including Otinkyad) had tried to contact Sennheiser customer support by e-mail. Two of them were before kstuart joined the thread. One person received an automated reply and subsequently decided to return his product. One never told us what happened. And we know what Otinkyad found out.


nice response, thanks for doing the research.

 

post #295 of 459

^ +1.  Very useful compilation of information, thanks!


Edited by otinkyad - 3/2/12 at 8:01am
post #296 of 459
Quote:
Originally Posted by GiacomoHoldini View Post

George, how do you feel the Sony compares to the Sennheisers you've heard? Have you been able to compare it to the RS220? I've not heard any wireless Sony models, but my take after hearing three different wired Sony studio monitor models (V6, V600 and V900) is that Sonys tend to very clear (sometimes uncomfortably so) on the top end, and have pretty modest bass response. Headroom doesn't have a FR graph of the DS7500, but the DS6000 looks altogether different, and not necessarily for the better: much less high end, but also less bass, too. What do you think?
280



 

Hey Giacomo,

 

I must apologize as I am not too experienced with proper reviews but in case this helps: I consider the Sonys to be superior to the RS220s in sound quality when in a lossless setting such as Dolby TrueHD or DTSHDMA which I believe is when they are transmitting at 24/192.  One of my buddies has the RS220s which he brought back with him from his Europe trip.  Hands down the earcups and feel of the Senns were far more comfortable with a wider soundstage (similar to my HD595 wired and the 650s and 800s that I have tried on).  The RS220s emit a slightly louder hiss at higher volumes and obviously when watching a blu-ray in Dolby TrueHD or DTS HD-MA mode the sony's really stood out in terms of channel separation (7.1 but my ears really cannot tell the difference between 5.1 to be honest) but especially in sound quality as the stream sounded louder and more clear to my amateur ears (which makes sernse considering the bandwidth was at about 4mbps in those lossless streams).  Now I wouldn't consider this a fair comparisson considering the RS220s had no way of playing that stream and cannot transmit at 24/192.  So the RS220 had to be put on Dolby Digital mode (which brought the bandwidth down to about a 500k stream if I remember correctly) through optical and I think it was in fact 2.0 (sorry it's my friend's headset so I don't know all the exact details/setting options).  Forgot to say that the Sony's offer forced prologicIIz and x in case you like it.  The RS220s are open vs closed for the MDR-DS7500s so once again a totally different feel but in my case I was very pleased with the Sonys as my sleeping wife beside me did not hear any sound leakage even at what I considered to be a very loud volume.  If I was not worried about leakage I still prefer the open HS595/600/650/800 and the fact that you don't even need to take off those headphones to hear what's around you.  As for sound quality when both were playing dolby digital streams (a true comparisson in my opinion) the senns had less bass (which I don't mind) which I guess I am trying to say that if you like the bass of movies and music you might like the Sonys.  I honestly prefer the balanced feel of my wired HD595s and RS220s overall which are a little less on the bass compared to the Sonys.  The highs in the Sonys are not muffled in my opinion and I find them to be quite crisp without feeling tinny.  In case this matters to anyone: please note that when I first reviewed the Sonys I didn't realize that I should have tested it at max max volume which when there is no sound playing (like just between commercials, etc) there is in fact a slight hiss in both the RS220s and the MDR DS7500s but only at max volumes.  Overall, I think the Sony's do sound better and support transmitting a true lossless stream compared to the RS220s however it's first to market and it's only a matter of time I hope until something from Senn or another true audio company brings out their version and without a doubt it will be far more refined than the Sony.  Feek free to ask if I can be of any further help.

 

Thanks,

George


Edited by curiousgeorgieo - 3/2/12 at 7:53pm
post #297 of 459
Thanks for the detailed comparison, George. Since you spent some time with the RS220, did you happen to notice whether the unit you had suffered from any micro-drops or high-pitched hum or whine?
post #298 of 459
Quote:
Originally Posted by GiacomoHoldini View Post

Thanks for the detailed comparison, George. Since you spent some time with the RS220, did you happen to notice whether the unit you had suffered from any micro-drops or high-pitched hum or whine?


Hey guys,

 

No drops on my buddy's set when I tried them so sorry to hear about those who are having this issue.  There is a bit of a hum  at max volume but it's not noticeable when sound from the movie/show/music is playing.  I left him a message and hopefully will get ahold of them again to confirm and further test the drop issue.

post #299 of 459

I am really looking forward to this, the cables are very annoying when I watch movies

post #300 of 459

Seems most everyone is already sold out of these.  I wonder if the next batch will have the same issues? 

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