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The Audeze LCD-2 Ortho thread (New) - Page 336

post #5026 of 7128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Lust Envy View Post


Figuratively. If any amp worth their salt gets the LCD2 at a theoretical 90% of their potential (i.e. $100 Magni), and you compare it to a $1000 amp that gets you to 100% of their potential, well then... do I need to do the math for you?

The LCD2 is no HE-6, no HD650, no HD800 in terms of amping.

But people will spew hyperbole just to justify spending so much on gear.

 

There are improvements there and so very real. No FiiO / O2 amp is gonna make these (or any good $1000) headphone sound their best (and many times they can make them sound much worse). Cheap starter amps like these are a non-starter for me and won't get you anywhere close what the LCD-2s are capable of. The LCD-3s are much tougher to "get right" as well. The LCD-2s have the benefit of "sounding nice" with a lot of gear, but why spend $1000 to hear "nice sounding headphones"? Just pick up something much cheaper and save your money if that's the case.

 

My comments are from my first hand experience with FiiO amps, O2 amps and then much better gear (GS-1, B22, WA22, LF, GS-X). And the differences are much more than 10%. First off the LCD-2s are orthos and a few milli watts isn't going to cut it. I would say about 2W into 50 ohms is about right. Then there's the quality of those Watts.

 

But to address your last comment, I often find that those who say they can't hear differences are ones with little/no first hand experiences, or just "heard them for a few minutes" at a local meet. I can hardly tell differences between headphones at local meets and find them more social gatherings than events to truly evaluate gear. That takes several days (and ideally a few weeks).


Edited by MacedonianHero - 5/4/13 at 3:43pm
post #5027 of 7128
Why spend money on $1000 for 'nice'? Because nice is very close to your 'as nice as it can be' for a mere fraction of the price.

Not everyone can afford to spend as much money as you have on gear. IMHO, The LCD2 will mop up the floor with most uber-driven 'cheaper' headphones on decent gear that don't cost as much.

The headphone is the most important part of the chain, and when it's as easy to drive as the LCD2, you don't need to refinance your home just to hook up some boutique amps that cost more than the headphone itself.

Your 50% sounds like utter hyperbole. I didn't know you could wear your amps on your head and listen to them.

I'm just gonna start dismissing anyone who states that a headphone as easy to drive as the LCD2 is only at 50% with realistically feasible gear.

Oh, I'm pushing two watts at them, and it's not much different than when I pushed less than a watt at them. But of course, I probably have a horrendous amp by your logic, and need to spend about $750 more to power up the LCD2 by 2x.

Then again, you would probably still justify a Benchmark DAC-1 over an ODAC, because it costs 10x as much so it must be better.
Edited by Mad Lust Envy - 5/4/13 at 3:49pm
post #5028 of 7128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Lust Envy View Post

Why spend money on $1000 for 'nice'? 

 

popcorn.gif

post #5029 of 7128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Lust Envy View Post



Your 50% sounds like utter hyperbole. I didn't know you could wear your amps on your head and listen to them.

I'm just gonna start dismissing anyone who states that a headphone as easy to drive as the LCD2 is only at 50% with realistically feasible gear.
.

Yea, Peter is really exaggerating. It's clearly more like LCD-2 is only at 10%


Edited by paradoxper - 5/4/13 at 3:52pm
post #5030 of 7128
Quote:
Originally Posted by OPR8R View Post

popcorn.gif

To clarify, I'd rather spend $1000 on a high end headphone that sounds great off many things because the headphone like the LCD2 is going to give you a very high percentage of what you're hearing (it IS the transducer). I could buy an HD650 for $400, and the rest on an amp, and it still wouldn't touch the LCD2, IMHO.
post #5031 of 7128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Lust Envy View Post

Why spend money on $1000 for 'nice'? Because nice is very close to your 'as nice as it can be' for a mere fraction of the price.

Not everyone can afford to spend as much money as you have on gear. IMHO, The LCD2 will mop up the floor with most uber-driven 'cheaper' headphones on decent gear that don't cost as much.

The headphone is the most important part of the chain, and when it's as easy to drive as the LCD2, you don't need to refinance your home just to hook up some boutique amps that cost more than the headphone itself.

Your 50% sounds like utter hyperbole. I didn't know you could wear your amps on your head and listen to them.

I'm just gonna start dismissing anyone who states that a headphone as easy to drive as the LCD2 is only at 50% with realistically feasible gear.

Oh, I'm pushing two watts at them, and it's not much different than when I pushed less than a watt at them. But of course, I probably have a horrendous amp by your logic, and need to spend about $750 more to power up the LCD2 by 2x.

Then again, you would probably still justify a Benchmark DAC-1 over an ODAC, because it costs 10x as much so it must be better.

 

Might I ask what "good" amp/source you've heard the LCD-2s on to make these comments?

post #5032 of 7128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Lust Envy View Post


To clarify, I'd rather spend $1000 on a high end headphone that sounds great off many things because the headphone like the LCD2 is going to give you a very high percentage of what you're hearing (it IS the transducer). I could buy an HD650 for $400, and the rest on an amp, and it still wouldn't touch the LCD2, IMHO.

 

I wouldn't spend $1000 on the transducers and then limit their performance with starter gear. Sorry. that in my opinion is a waste of money. I want to hear 100% of what these transducers can do. Now that's not always correlated to spending big bucks, but it IS about the chain and your system will only sound as good as its weakest link. 

post #5033 of 7128
I don't believe in spending a million dollars on amp/sources, as everything I have heard them from: ODAC, SA-31, Compass 2, Marantz Receiver, Onkyo receivers, various lesser equipment have all made them sound very close to one another, with very minute levels of refinement. I've also owned the Lyr and NFB-5 with other gear that were harder to drive, and they didn't scale anywhere near as much as you make the LCD2 sound. The only headphone truly worthy of a super powered amp that I owned was the HE-4, which is very insensitive.

Of course, I don't listen with my eyes, nor would I ever justify spending so much on anything.

Just as I have found the LCD2 to sound 95-98% with every single device I've hooked them up to, and I highly doubt it'd be any different with your boutique devices.

You're biased with your uber equipment, and I'm doubting that you've spent much time with 'lesser' equipment yourself.
Edited by Mad Lust Envy - 5/4/13 at 4:02pm
post #5034 of 7128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Lust Envy View Post


To clarify, I'd rather spend $1000 on a high end headphone that sounds great off many things because the headphone like the LCD2 is going to give you a very high percentage of what you're hearing (it IS the transducer). I could buy an HD650 for $400, and the rest on an amp, and it still wouldn't touch the LCD2, IMHO.

 

Your point is a good one, and I mostly agree.  If I had $1k to spend on a rig, I'd spend it on the best headphones I could get (probably LCD2) and save for an amp.  But if I were only going to spend $1k (ever), I might do something different.

 

Incidentally, and I don't know if this speaks to the new Taboo or HD580's (I think the Taboo), but those two together sound pretty darned amazing.  It's a shame I haven't been able to spend more time with the combo. because Audeze, but hearing them for just a few minutes makes me wonder what the HD800 must sound like at the end of my chain???


Edited by OPR8R - 5/4/13 at 4:06pm
post #5035 of 7128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Lust Envy View Post

I don't believe in spending a million dollars on amp/sources, as everything I have heard them from: ODAC, SA-31, Compass 2, Marantz Receiver, Onkyo receivers, various lesser equipment have all made them sound very close to one another, with very minute levels of refinement. I've also owned the Lyr and NFB-5 with other ghear that were harder to drive, and they didn't scale anywhere near as much as you make the LCD2 sound. The only headphone truly worthy of a super powered amp that I owned was the HE-4, which is very insensitive.

Of course, I don't listen with my eyes, nor would I ever justify spending so much on anything.

 

So your experiences are limited to some very affordable amps/dacs. I would recommend you actually get first hand experience BEFORE making such generalizations. rolleyes.gif

 

I'm not asking you to spend money, just not make generalizations WITHOUT first hand listening experiences.


Edited by MacedonianHero - 5/4/13 at 4:05pm
post #5036 of 7128
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacedonianHero View Post

I wouldn't spend $1000 on the transducers and then limit their performance with starter gear. Sorry. that in my opinion is a waste of money. I want to hear 100% of what these transducers can do. Now that's not always correlated to spending big bucks, but it IS about the chain and your system will only sound as good as its weakest link. 

Well, you can obviously afford to get the best of everything, as your signature suggests. Not everyone has that kind of cashflow, and you're coming off as a bit out of touch with reality if you think everyone can just wait to get the best of the best like you or settle with lesser headphones. As I've stated, the headphone is the most important part of sound, and if they CAN afford it, I'd get the LCD2 first as it will reap the most SQ.

But we are on two very different mindsets, with our own biases, so let's leave it at that.
post #5037 of 7128
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacedonianHero View Post

So your experiences are limited to some very affordable amps/dacs. I would recommend you actually get first hand experience BEFORE making such generalizations. rolleyes.gif


I'm not asking you to spend money, just not make generalizations WITHOUT first hand listening experiences.

My experiences are with 30+ headphones ranging from stupid easy to drive, to very hard to drive. Nothing other than the hardest to drive have scaled anywhere near as much as the hyperbole you're spewing. Regardless of power being fed.

50%? Give me a break. The LCD2 is not an HE-6.
Edited by Mad Lust Envy - 5/4/13 at 4:08pm
post #5038 of 7128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Lust Envy View Post


Well, you can obviously afford to get the best of everything, as your signature suggests. Not everyone has that kind of cashflow, and you're coming off as a bit out of touch with reality if you think everyone can just wait to get the best of the best like you or settle with lesser headphones. As I've stated, the headphone is the most important part of sound, and if they CAN afford it, I'd get the LCD2 first as it will reap the most SQ.

But we are on two very different mindsets, with our own biases, so let's leave it at that.

We're in agreement here. But I would go further and say that the entire chain must be considered. Yes, the transducers are the most important, but the weakest link or links can really bottleneck those transducers. 

post #5039 of 7128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Lust Envy View Post


My experiences are with 30+ headphones ranging from stupid easy to drive, to very hard to drive. Nothing other than the hardest to drive have scaled anywhere near as much as the hyperbole you're spewing. Regardless of power being fed.

50%? Give me a break. The LCD2 is not an HE-6.

I mean, given your skepticism...is it not possible that the LCD-2's go from 10% to 90-100% on better gear?

You said you haven't heard it on the best, so just keep an open mind.

post #5040 of 7128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Lust Envy View Post


 I could buy an HD650 for $400, and the rest on an amp, and it still wouldn't touch the LCD2, IMHO.

 

 

I'll take this bet biggrin.gif

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