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Shure SE535 Special Edition - Page 13

post #181 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inks View Post

I don't think you're using the definition of "extension" properly honestly, in terms of sheer treble extension UE900=W4[wide bore tips]>ER4>SE535>GR10. Only the UE900 and W4 can reach 20k, tested via freq sweep and confirmed by FR graphs. I actually wish I had both to do a sine-wave comparison as to see which can reach 24k [yes I can hear that high]. 

 

Sounds like a poor fit on those SE535s, I think if I remember correctly, the SE535s 10k region makes it sound aggressive and forward when the insertion depth isn't right. 

 

If the ER4 sounded aggressive on the treble, bad fit as well....it's smoother than GR10 and W4. ER4's subbass is horrid yes, midbass is fine. 

 

 

 

 

This is my last post on this because I don't think you can hear past 16-17K and don't wish to argue.  But just to go on record,,,,,

 

  • IMHO ER4 is the easest fitting universal on the market.  A straight thin plug with a tri-flange that you push in until it stops.....perfect fit for everyone everytime.  It fits or it doesn't, there is nothing in between and this is what Mead was aiming for.
  • The W4 is 3 to 4 times smoother, in fact waaay to smooth where it has no shimmer and no crispness.  Ety is the exact opposite where it is just plain harsh and siblant especially at higher volumes and this is even with the charcoal foam tips.  The reason your charts don't say that is because it is a BA single driver trying to do the job of what 3 drivers require and the result is a complete mess.
  • GR10 treble is best of the best.  The old SE530 has better treble extension than UE900.  Perhaps I got a bad pair?  That would be 3 out of 3 rejects I bought?
  • Please tell me the ER4 extends deeper than the JH13 and JH16 so I can save $1,000.
post #182 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inks View Post

I don't think you're using the definition of "extension" properly honestly, in terms of sheer treble extension UE900=W4[wide bore tips]>ER4>SE535>GR10. Only the UE900 and W4 can reach 20k, tested via freq sweep and confirmed by FR graphs. I actually wish I had both to do a sine-wave comparison as to see which can reach 24k [yes I can hear that high]. 

Sounds like a poor fit on those SE535s, I think if I remember correctly, the SE535s 10k region makes it sound aggressive and forward when the insertion depth isn't right. 

If the ER4 sounded aggressive on the treble, bad fit as well....it's smoother than GR10 and W4. ER4's subbass is horrid yes, midbass is fine. 

I hate to get into your argument but the W4, as stated on Westone's website, only has a freq response up to 18k. The SE 535 Reds go to 19.5k. I also agree with Spyro having owned both the W4r and the 535 Reds, Westone was too conservative when they turned the W4s. Too smooth lacking both PRaT and crispness.
post #183 of 235
Originally Posted by Spyro View Post

This is my last post on this because I don't think you can hear past 16-17K and don't wish to argue.  But just to go on record,,,,,

 

  • IMHO ER4 is the easest fitting universal on the market.  A straight thin plug with a tri-flange that you push in until it stops.....perfect fit for everyone everytime.  It fits or it doesn't, there is nothing in between and this is what Mead was aiming for.
  • The W4 is 3 to 4 times smoother, in fact waaay to smooth where it has no shimmer and no crispness.  Ety is the exact opposite where it is just plain harsh and siblant especially at higher volumes and this is even with the charcoal foam tips.  The reason your charts don't say that is because it is a BA single driver trying to do the job of what 3 drivers require and the result is a complete mess.
  • GR10 treble is best of the best.  The old SE530 has better treble extension than UE900.  Perhaps I got a bad pair?  That would be 3 out of 3 rejects I bought?
  • Please tell me the ER4 extends deeper than the JH13 and JH16 so I can save $1,000.

I'm 25, still kept my hearing extension to 24k, wish i could prove it but no need 

 

It's not that easy with the ER4, you don't just push until it stops, you have to see the depth of the housing, the triflanges may be too big for some. 

W4 has smooth lower midhighs but it's 10k spike is more problematic than any spike on the ER4. I am using Phoank tips here to get the best bandwidth, maybe you were using tips that were killing the highs...

 

The charts and overall user experience state that the ER4s sound like how you describe, with a bad fit. IME listening, it's a very smooth treble. What made you come up with the idea that exactly 3 driver are needed? Do you have any technical knowledge or data to back that claim? Hmm if Etymotic or another manufacturer somehow manages to vent their driver like a Klipsch X10 for bass extension while retaining everything else, that will kill many multi-BAs. ER4 has one of the best treble out there, many IEMs wish it shared it's target, only flaw is that it caps at 17k. nt. 

 

GR10's treble lacks any air [rolls off early] and is peaky in the lower treble. Something is very wrong if you think the UE900 has less treble bandwidth than SE530...

 

I just said the ER4 has poor subass....


Edited by Inks - 4/17/13 at 10:05pm
post #184 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by spook76 View Post


I hate to get into your argument but the W4, as stated on Westone's website, only has a freq response up to 18k. The SE 535 Reds go to 19.5k. I also agree with Spyro having owned both the W4r and the 535 Reds, Westone was too conservative when they turned the W4s. Too smooth lacking both PRaT and crispness.

Never trust manufacturer specs for real world listening. Sony claim the EX1000 reaches to something like 48k...lol, it caps at 17k. W4 extends past 20k [but with wide bore tips], S535 caps somewhere at 15-17k. Treble presence is another thing, the W4 needs the right tip for this, a short wide bore tapered tip like Phonaks or Shure PA757, definitely crisp. 

post #185 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inks View Post

Never trust manufacturer specs for real world listening. Sony claim the EX1000 reaches to something like 48k...lol, it caps at 17k. W4 extends past 20k [but with wide bore tips], S535 caps somewhere at 15-17k. Treble presence is another thing, the W4 needs the right tip for this, a short wide bore tapered tip like Phonaks or Shure PA757, definitely crisp. 

Are you kidding me? No manufacturer is going to UNDER sell their product. What rational reason would Westone have for understating the freq response for the W4? They like to surprise their customers? Over selling I can understand but not under.
post #186 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by spook76 View Post

Are you kidding me? No manufacturer is going to UNDER sell their product. What rational reason would Westone have for understating the freq response for the W4? They like to surprise their customers? Over selling I can understand but not under.

It happens a lot actually. I don't think they care a lot for that spec, though that is the bandwidth with the old small bore tips they included before. Definitely reaches 20k with wide bore tips, dare anyone to try that can hear that high.
post #187 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inks View Post

It happens a lot actually. I don't think they care a lot for that spec, though that is the bandwidth with the old small bore tips they included before. Definitely reaches 20k with wide bore tips, dare anyone to try that can hear that high.

Unfortunately, no it does not. As a corporate attorney I can tell you US manufacturers are subject to rather strict "Truth in Advertising" under both Federal and State laws. Their competitors can quite easily bring a civil action against them for false advertising.
post #188 of 235
Do you own a W4? I can tell you it does, easily, via a sweep, try it [with wide bore tips] Just because their test was limited doesn't mean it is the truth, that's silly.
post #189 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inks View Post

It happens a lot actually. I don't think they care a lot for that spec, though that is the bandwidth with the old small bore tips they included before. Definitely reaches 20k with wide bore tips, dare anyone to try that can hear that high.

Further, please tell me what rational reason Westone would have for understating the freq. response of the W4s? If Westone does not care about specifications then why include them at all? You may have "golden ears" but the engineers at Westone clearly do not.
post #190 of 235
The test was probably limited to the narrow tips. No need to take it further, see Rins graphs and do a frequency sweep, it reaches 20k...
post #191 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inks View Post

Do you own a W4? I can tell you it does, easily, via a sweep, try it [with wide bore tips] Just because their test was limited doesn't mean it is the truth, that's silly.

Yes, I owned the W4r for a couple of months before selling them and bought the 535 Reds. I had auditioned the original 535s for a couple of weeks and agree with most here that the roll off was a defect of the 535s which the 535 Reds cured.
post #192 of 235
But you didn't test what you claim to be untrue.

Funny their impedance spec is also off, it's 24ohms at 1k not 31. It's silly to give this such importance though, most are actually off, common knowledge by those in the know
post #193 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inks View Post

Do you own a W4? I can tell you it does, easily, via a sweep, try it [with wide bore tips] Just because their test was limited doesn't mean it is the truth, that's silly.

By the way, how do you know Westone's test was limited? Please give me a rational reason Westone would understate the freq. response. My personal experience with my corporate clients is they want to trumpet the advantages of their products not obscurant them.
post #194 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by spook76 View Post

By the way, how do you know Westone's test was limited? Please give me a rational reason Westone would understate the freq. response. My personal experience with my corporate clients is they want to trumpet the advantages of their products not obscurant them.

Because that's the bandwidth with the old stock tips, maybe they need to update it. Specs aren't a selling point in this industry tho, they're actually very insignificant.
post #195 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inks View Post

But you didn't test what you claim to be untrue.

Funny their impedance spec is also off, it's 24ohms at 1k not 31. It's silly to give this such importance though, most are actually off, common knowledge by those in the know

How can I argue with some one "in the know"? Well no point in further discussion with someone who is clearly omniscient. I will have to take a page from Spyro above and make this my last post.
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