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T1 channel imbalance (and Beyer Tesla headphone variance issues) - Page 4

post #46 of 83
Thread Starter 

^ From memory and assuming the "good" T1 I heard:

 

T1 is a tad brighter in a smaller spot (more narrow peak) over the HD800's large swath of brightness (broad plateau over entire treble).

post #47 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by .Sup View Post

So Beyer headphones are really bright? T1 is even brighter than HD800?


I personally found the T1 to be less bright than either the HD800 or K701 (regardless of amping). But I seem to be in the minority here today...  beyersmile.png

 

post #48 of 83
Thread Starter 

^ They are bright in different ways. Hence the differences in opinion.

post #49 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by purrin View Post

^ From memory and assuming the "good" T1 I heard:

 

T1 is a tad brighter in a smaller spot (more narrow peak) over the HD800's large swath of brightness (broad plateau over entire treble).


Hey, this is a really nice way to describe it. I was expecting something more harsh... evil_smiley.gif

 

post #50 of 83

Well said - I think you´re right purrin :) Personally I am just more annoyed by brightness in that spot where the T1 does it more, but at the same point am otherwise ok with a semi-bright overall tonality similar to what´s found in most studio monitors.

post #51 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by Olias of Sunhillow View Post

I personally found the T1 to be less bright than either the HD800 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by purrin View Post

^ They are bright in different ways. Hence the differences in opinion.

 

Yes.

 

Also the T1 we heard was driven by the Balancing Act, no underdriven phones there.  I also want to clear up a few tangential mischaracterizations.  Tube amps aren't always lush, you can get them thin, flat and analytical if you want.  Tube also don't exist merely for coloration of bright phones, though they can.  They handle distortion and clipping different than SS (read better) and offer a dimensionality much harder to find in SS if at all.  I'm still waiting to hear a SS amp that can portray musical information the same way tubes can.  Tangent over.
 

 

post #52 of 83

 

Food for thought...
 
It might be easy to single out the T1 as being imbalanced or brighter compared to other T1s, however I believe this could be the case with all headphones.
 
I have owned my DT880s for some time, I would estimate at least 300 hours of playing time. I recently suggested the DT880 to a friend, of which I've just heard and they sound completely different in direct comparison to mine. They newer DT880s are much brighter with less mid-rage body, the bass doesn't seem as tight or present. So either there is such a thing as 'burn-in' or as Uncle Eric said in regards to the burn-in 'myth' all headphones are organic in nature and no two are alike.
 
Could we not simply be withnessing this manufacturing difference between the same phones; some closer to the brighter edge of the spectrum, some bassier and all those inbetween? The more resolving a headphone the more these anomalies are amplified?
 
If that is indeed the case, reviews and comparison would mean very little.
 
post #53 of 83
Thread Starter 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Graphicism View Post

... are organic in nature and no two are alike.

 
Could we not simply be withnessing this manufacturing difference between the same phones; some closer to the brighter edge of the spectrum, some bassier and all those inbetween? The more resolving a headphone the more these anomalies are amplified?
 
If that is indeed the case, reviews and comparison would mean very little.


If that would be the case, then Beyer should be ashamed of themselves for charging people $1200. Middle of manufacturing run changes to improve a product is acceptable. Random "organic" variation is not. So far I am very disturbed at what I see with my graph and Tyll's.


Edited by purrin - 10/3/11 at 4:35pm
post #54 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by .Sup View Post

So Beyer headphones are really bright? T1 is even brighter than HD800?


I would classify my T1s as slightly warmer than my HD800s...so would Skylab, Olias of Sunhillow and many others who have owned both. Upstateguy mentioned his first pair (that eventually failed on him) where thin/bright, but his new pair is quite a bit fuller and nowhere as bright.
Edited by MacedonianHero - 10/3/11 at 5:06pm
post #55 of 83

I don't find my T1s bright at all, especially when compared to the K701.

post #56 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by purrin View Post

^ From memory and assuming the "good" T1 I heard:

 

T1 is a tad brighter in a smaller spot (more narrow peak) over the HD800's large swath of brightness (broad plateau over entire treble).


A narrow band peak will always sound worse than a wide band boost, the latter will sound more natural (first rule of EQ!), with less artifacts, the opposite goes for EQ cuts. That is why vrln finds HD800 listenable and the T1 - not. And that is why they sound more like a studio monitors, which (the good ones!) generally avoid these "ridges" and unwanted narrow peaks. But you folks know that already, so I don't know why I'm writing this confused.gif

 

Oh, I remembered the ATH-A900, which have an unnatural peak at around 12 khz, but weirdly it doesn't sound very bad (to my ears), probably because they have a mellow and not a bright signature overall.


Edited by rayjuodas - 11/17/11 at 3:14am
post #57 of 83

Interesting to see these opinions, I've been saying for a while the T1 sound was never for me while confused at all the praise they received.

 

I do agree that Beyer's Quality Control is pretty bad; the headband of the T1 pair I had was super loose on one side and tight on the other; you could see parts of the headband poking out on the fabric as well for one of those sides.  I also went through several pairs of DT1350's and not one of them was "factory perfect" IMO ~ little imperfections here and there drive me crazy.

 

The hd800 is also very much guilty of having minor imperfections from the factory so it's not just Beyer.

post #58 of 83
Thread Starter 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by rayjuodas View Post


A narrow band peak will always sound worse than a wide band boost, the latter will sound more natural (first rule of EQ!), with less artifacts, the opposite goes for EQ cuts. That is why vrln finds HD800 listenable and the T1 - not. And that is why they sound more like a studio monitors, which (the good ones!) generally avoid these "ridges" and unwanted narrow peaks. But you folks know that already, so I don't know why I'm writing this confused.gif

 

Oh, I remembered the ATH-A900, which have an unnatural peak at around 12 khz, but weirdly it doesn't sound very bad (to my ears), probably because they have a mellow and not a bright signature overall.


IMO, once you get to 12kHz, you are close to the "safe" zone where our ears don't have as much resolving capability.

 

post #59 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by purrin View Post


IMO, once you get to 12kHz, you are close to the "safe" zone where our ears don't have as much resolving capability.

 

 

Especially as we get older.

 

Did you ever get a chance to measure another T1?  I am curious as to whether the mismatch is endemic.
 

 

post #60 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by purrin View Post

 


IMO, once you get to 12kHz, you are close to the "safe" zone where our ears don't have as much resolving capability.

 

 

Maybe you're right, if you mean the wideness of EQ bands, but I'm not so sure. On ATH-A900 it still sounds bad, if you think about it (in a sense that 12 khz jump at you, if an instrument with a lot of attack in 12 Khz region is played (say, a ride cymbal), and anyway I'm quite sure it's a narrow band on 12 khz, as otherwise treble would seem a lot hotter on that headphone, and it isn't. In this respect it sounds unnatural, compared to, say, ATH-M50. 

Sorry, I know this is a thread about T1, I'm done :)

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