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T1 channel imbalance (and Beyer Tesla headphone variance issues) - Page 3

post #31 of 83

I have to say that I'm a little concerned about Beyer build quality lately. As an example, I removed the pad from a friend's DT 1350 and noticed that the meshed material protecting the driver wasn't properly glued on one side.

I also noticed quite a lot of small manufacturing defects on my former two T50p and our own DT 1350s. Not that it influences sound quality, but it definitely feels that they were made in a rush.

Finally Tylll has measured several beyers and some of them had reversed polarity. Again, it's likely not to affect sound quality, but it screams inconsistency. In addition all the Tesla Beyers measured differently : the two T1, T5p and T50p aren't measuring in the same way, while the DT880 do, and as a contrasting example the K701 and LCD-2 seem to remain quite identical across models.

I think it would be nice for Beyer to give some explanation, at least for their flagship. As someone said, that kind of money isn't exactly cheap.


Edited by MayaTlab - 10/3/11 at 12:00am
post #32 of 83

Sorry, double post.

 


Edited by MayaTlab - 10/2/11 at 11:58pm
post #33 of 83

It is discouraging to see these quality control issues, for sure.

 

But it seems, to me at least, that the "two versions theory" may all come down to these QC issues such as channel imbalance, out of phase, reversed polarity, and others.

 

And, when combined with the fact that the T1 sounds WAY DIFFERENT from amp to amp, a person may hear a different sounding headphone from one they heard under different conditions.

 

Certainly, when the T1 is under-driven, the bass is the first thing to go.  Trust me, I've heard mine sound anemic to robust, and everything in between.  wink.gif

 

 

 

 

post #34 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWuss View Post

It is discouraging to see these quality control issues, for sure.

 

But it seems, to me at least, that the "two versions theory" may all come down to these QC issues such as channel imbalance, out of phase, reversed polarity, and others.

 

And, when combined with the fact that the T1 sounds WAY DIFFERENT from amp to amp, a person may hear a different sounding headphone from one they heard under different conditions.

 

Certainly, when the T1 is under-driven, the bass is the first thing to go.  Trust me, I've heard mine sound anemic to robust, and everything in between.  wink.gif

 


Great post -- this exactly matches my experiences and beliefs about the T1. I don't buy the "two versions" argument -- unless you consider "functional" and "defective" to be two versions, which then makes it a QC issue and not a design issue.

 

When properly amped (in my case, with my maxed WA2), my T1 are phenomenally balanced with excellent bass -- they in no way resemble the "ear-piercing treble monsters" that others have found with other serial numbers. Of course, I haven't measured mine for channel imbalance, but I don't notice it in my listening.

 

post #35 of 83
Thread Starter 

Anax and I didn't think there was an issue with the bass. LFF thought the T1 was lean sounding, but he just came from listening to the SR-009s. I think my initial impression (before measurements) was that it had similar tone to the HD650s until I started to notice the treble peakyness and ringing, which made it unbearable.

 

http://www.head-fi.org/t/566929/headphone-csd-waterfall-plots/180#post_7785685

post #36 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by purrin View Post

Anax and I didn't think there was an issue with the bass. LFF thought the T1 was lean sounding, but he just came from listening to the SR-009s. I think my initial impression (before measurements) was that it had similar tone to the HD650s until I started to notice the treble peakyness and ringing, which made it unbearable.

 

http://www.head-fi.org/t/566929/headphone-csd-waterfall-plots/180#post_7785685


Dang...that's right. I did feel the T1 was very lean but I had just been listening to the SR-009's. If anything, I am more curious about listening to another T1 as I still feel the one we heard was total crap.

 

post #37 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by purrin View Post

Anax and I didn't think there was an issue with the bass. LFF thought the T1 was lean sounding, but he just came from listening to the SR-009s. I think my initial impression (before measurements) was that it had similar tone to the HD650s until I started to notice the treble peakyness and ringing, which made it unbearable.

 

http://www.head-fi.org/t/566929/headphone-csd-waterfall-plots/180#post_7785685


I'm very impressed with the work you're doing in that thread -- even though I don't always agree with your impressions, I think the attempt to find a correlation between useful objective measurements and subjective listening impressions is kind of the "holy grail" of audiophilia. I don't think you'll ever find that grail, mind you, but I appreciate the fact that the thread is at least nudging us in that direction in a way that doesn't insult or alienate anyone on either side of the discussion.

 

Anyway, I agree with the first part of your statement about the T1 -- they're remarkably like the HD650, just (for me) better in every way. I personally experience no "peakiness" in listening, and have never identified something I considered to be "ringing." Of course, as someone who started his audiophile journey with Grados, I tend to have more treble tolerance (or more hearing damage in the upper ranges, I suppose) than most.

 

post #38 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by Olias of Sunhillow View Post

Great post -- this exactly matches my experiences and beliefs about the T1. I don't buy the "two versions" argument -- unless you consider "functional" and "defective" to be two versions, which then makes it a QC issue and not a design issue.

 

When properly amped (in my case, with my maxed WA2), my T1 are phenomenally balanced with excellent bass -- they in no way resemble the "ear-piercing treble monsters" that others have found with other serial numbers. Of course, I haven't measured mine for channel imbalance, but I don't notice it in my listening.

 


I really doubt the T1 would sound so much better on the WA2 than the WA6SE. AFAIK, it is only a difference in sound character with the WA2 being more lush. I'm not a big fan of the lush sound of tube amps to begin with.

Here they actually prefer the WA6SE match over some other amplifiers saying it mellowed out the sound. http://news.cnet.com/8301-13645_3-20006489-47.html Even so, what I heard was anything but warm. It was really painful and sibilant.
post #39 of 83
Thread Starter 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Olias of Sunhillow View Post

...appreciate the fact that the thread is at least nudging us in that direction in a way that doesn't insult or alienate anyone on either side of the discussion.

 

 

You sure about that? I was pretty harsh on the HE300s. Actually I'm pretty harsh on everything.

post #40 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by wind016 View Post


I really doubt the T1 would sound so much better on the WA2 than the WA6SE. AFAIK, it is only a difference in sound character with the WA2 being more lush. I'm not a big fan of the lush sound of tube amps to begin with.
Here they actually prefer the WA6SE match over some other amplifiers saying it mellowed out the sound. http://news.cnet.com/8301-13645_3-20006489-47.html Even so, what I heard was anything but warm. It was really painful and sibilant.

 

I owned both the WA2 and WA6SE and very strongly preferred the WA2 with Beyers. This was true with all tube combinations I tried on both amps, but was especially the case with my preferred tube combo on the WA2: Sylvania 7236s and Mullard CV2493s.

 

To be perfectly honest, I don't find the WA2 to be as lush as most seem to... especially when compared with truly lush amps I've owned, like the MAD Ear+ HD or Consonance Cyber 2. I find the properly outfitted WA2 to very nicely straddle the line between warm and analytical in a way that the WA6SE never achieved. Admittedly, though, I've only heard my maxed WA2 and not the stock model, so there may be some appreciable difference there.

 

If painful and sibilant was all you heard, you had a defective pair of cans... which (based on this thread) may not be as unusual as once thought.
 

 

post #41 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by LFF View Post

Dang...that's right. I did feel the T1 was very lean but I had just been listening to the SR-009's. If anything, I am more curious about listening to another T1 as I still feel the one we heard was total crap.

 



Ah, don't bother. Everytime I heard them they were crap... tongue.gif

 

It's funny, when the T1 came out people called me crazy for saying the K701's are actually faster and in some ways more accurate. Looking at the decays of the two now though...

post #42 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by purrin View Post

 

 

You sure about that? I was pretty harsh on the HE300s. Actually I'm pretty harsh on everything.


If I had to guess, I'd say that so few people own the HE-300s that the outcry of the deeply offended isn't likely to be audible.

 

post #43 of 83

I´ve owned a DT 880 (latest edition) and listened extensively to the T1 at a local store with a headphone amp I know using albums I am familiar with. If you ask me, dynamic headphones in general have serious treble issues. Sibilance is not a part of neutral sound playback. I have a Genelec-Benchmark studio rig at home and in a nearfield setup, even though it is bordering on "bright", it is never painful like so many headphones are. One of the worst offenders I´ve encountered is the T1. If you read these forums you´ll often see that Beyers are recommended to be paired with tubes. I think this is purely because they are horrible without very colored amplification to make them listenable without being in constant pain. Same goes with HD 800, which also suffers from sibilant and painful treble, but luckily it isn´t as bad as it is on the T1. With neutral solid state amplification (Benchmark, Meier, Lehmann, SPL, take your pick) most (thanks Sennheiser for HD 650, you rock!) dynamic headphones will sound painful in the treble area. For me Beyer is "the king of pain", their gear is by far the worst offender. And the crown jewel for "most painful headphone out there" goes to the T1.

 

That said, we all hear differently - I have heard from several (usually older folks who have been listening to lots of music in concerts etc during their lives) people that they don´t hear anything bad with the treble. 

post #44 of 83

So Beyer headphones are really bright? T1 is even brighter than HD800?

post #45 of 83

T1 is clearly brighter than the HD 800. The HD 800 treble for me is a compromise I could live with because the headphone does everything else so beautifully, but no way I´d be able to make peace with a T1.

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