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T1 channel imbalance (and Beyer Tesla headphone variance issues) - Page 2

post #16 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anathallo View Post


 


I don't understand why you needed to respond with this - I was trying to be transparent with my response by saying that while I am biased (I'm a fan of the 'beyer sound'), I haven't heard the T1, so I can't comment on this particular headphone.  I simply wanted to clear the air as to whether or not purrin was biased against the beyer house sound himself, as I am very interested in purchasing a T1, and I enjoy reading various opinions expressed about and measurements taken of the flagship.

 

It would have been appreciated if you had actually responded with something worthwhile instead of trying to insult my intelligence with your supposed wit.

 




Do you find you're sensitive to other bright cans (like some of the Grado) models as well?

 




Cool, just wanted to get some background information on how you felt about beyer in general - really enjoy reading the threads based around your waterfall graphs - thanks for the work.

 


Yea, I don't like exaggerated treble, but I couldn't even say my pair was colored. It only had one color and it was blood red treble.
post #17 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by wind016 View Post

 

I heard the DT770 and DT880s before and IMO they both sounded better than the T1 I owned before.

 

That's exactly how I felt after hearing the T1.  Buy the 880 and call it quits and save your money.

 

Channel imbalance or not, resolution on that set sucked.  Period.  Worst ToTL performance I've heard.  If people like a particular balance or FR I can understand that but based purely on extraction of information.  Forget it.

 

This was from a Balancing Act from a PS Audio PWD so let's make sure to not blame the source.  This setup makes the HD800 compete w/ the 009 I heard from a 323. 

post #18 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by purrin View Post

 

Consider how the HD800 and SR009 (not shown) FR measurements show extremely good tolerances (as should be expected for very expensive TOTL headphones - and it's my understanding that these manufacturers claim 1 db matching of drivers)? Why do my HD800 and T50RP measurements conducted at different times weeks apart show the same result test after test (not shown, but I would glady post them here)? Maybe 0.25db at most.

 

In the case of the T1 measurements (as with all others I've performed), care was taken to align and adjust pressure applied to the cups. Multiple measurements are also taken to ensure best case results. This aspect isn't too critical because my measuring rig seems to be very consistent with its results. 


I can confirm both statements to be true.  We tried to intentionally skew the FR by shifting placement and position and the end was result was always unbelievably reliable and consistent.  I was quite shocked tbh.  In fact, it kind of boggles my mind that they were that consistent when i think about it.  

 

post #19 of 83

Bummer - because the 990 is my favourite of the three old flagships.  I was really hoping the T1 would combine the strengths of the 880 and the 990 into one all-powerful monster.  

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by purrin View Post

 

I do like the Beyer DT990 though, so it's not a brand or fanboy thing. Besides, even if I didn't personally like the T1, it wouldn't cause me to make any less effort to measure them properly or figure out if measurement anomalies were caused by unknown factors. I actually make an extra effort to obtain good results for stuff I don't like. In this case, I shifted the cups around, reinserted and realigned the microphone, played with the pads, and took another measurement the next day. The results were the same.

 



Sorry about my blunt response as well - I had a bad day at work and the sarcasm kinda threw me off - I really enjoy reading your enjoy your reviews, so I would hate to be on your bad side if I had questions regarding some of the work you've done.  No hard feelings. beerchug.gif


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by LFF View Post

Hey...I can be witty! I can also be kind of dick at times, especially if I don't "know" you....so my apologies. Based on this response you did deserve a better response than my "Ummmm". beerchug.gif

 



 

Yea, I own both the 880 and 990, and like I mentioned, I was hoping the T1 would be able to replace both.  It's so odd, because other parties have stated the exact opposite - especially since I've heard the HD800 and didn't like it (except for the massive soundstage) for the brief time I did listen.  Interesting!
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anaxilus View Post

 

That's exactly how I felt after hearing the T1.  Buy the 880 and call it quits and save your money.

 

Channel imbalance or not, resolution on that set sucked.  Period.  Worst ToTL performance I've heard.  If people like a particular balance or FR I can understand that but based purely on extraction of information.  Forget it.

 

This was from a Balancing Act from a PS Audio PWD so let's make sure to not blame the source.  This setup makes the HD800 compete w/ the 009 I heard from a 323. 


 

 

post #20 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anathallo View Post
 No hard feelings. beerchug.gif

 


Likewise. beerchug.gif

 

post #21 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anathallo View Post

 

Yea, I own both the 880 and 990, and like I mentioned, I was hoping the T1 would be able to replace both.  It's so odd, because other parties have stated the exact opposite - especially since I've heard the HD800 and didn't like it (except for the massive soundstage) for the brief time I did listen.  Interesting! 


It's very easy to dismiss HD800.  I think what happens is w/ most sources people plug them into the phones are a bit starved for information while other dynamic phones have hit their potential.  This evens the playing field and what's left for the listener at that point is to pick which FR they prefer more.  But once your sources improve it's the HD800 that keeps scaling.  With the tube amps I've heard it paired with the inner resolution and dynamic range is phenomenal compared to other phones.  I need to hear an R10.  Bear in mind too that purrin and myself use some minor acoustic treatment on the HD800 to great effect w/o the drawbacks of EQ.

 

post #22 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anaxilus View Post

 Bear in mind too that purrin and myself use some minor acoustic treatment on the HD800 to great effect w/o the drawbacks of EQ.

 



 

Good thread---completely relavent to my future upgrades. Links to the HD800 mod?

post #23 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by pigmode View Post

Links to the HD800 mod?


http://www.head-fi.org/t/566929/headphone-csd-waterfall-plots/15

 

 

post #24 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by pigmode View Post

 

Good thread---completely relavent to my future upgrades. Links to the HD800 mod?



Still wanting the HD 800 eh?  Just do it already.


Edited by Eee Pee - 10/2/11 at 3:19pm
post #25 of 83
Quote:


Thanks, Anaxilus.


 

 

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eee Pee View Post


Still wanting the HD 800 eh?  Just do it already.



I know, slow but hopefully systematic. It will be happening soon after the jkenny MK3 is settled into the system. And yes, it is taunting. wink.gif

 

post #26 of 83

I wonder what Beyer's response about this would be

post #27 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by pigmode View Post
And yes, it is taunting. wink.gif

 



biggrin.gif I did say taunting at first.  I edited.  Wanting made more sense after a reconsideration.

 

The HD 600s are wonderful, but the HD 800s are next level.

 

Taunt taunt.  tongue_smile.gif


Edited by Eee Pee - 10/2/11 at 3:52pm
post #28 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by .Sup View Post

I wonder what Beyer's response about this would be


I wonder if they had two versions of T1. One that is treble heavy and one that isn't as much so. Maybe Purrin received a mix? Stupid idea, I know. =P
post #29 of 83

I don't disbelieve that you take great care in taking your measurements to make sure that everything is as similar as can be.  I think that the most valid area for us to be looking is the upper bass and midrange for channel imbalance.  Indeed in these areas the HD800 and sr-009 (innerfidelity since yours is not shown) have very good and reproduceable channel balance in these areas and this is something that your particular pair of T1s are quite off which is something that is quite concerning.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by purrin View Post

I agree with what you are saying, but environmental factors, assuming great care is taken to align the microphone, cups, etc. shouldn't alter L and R response at one spot by 3-4db!

 

Consider how the HD800 and SR009 (not shown) FR measurements show extremely good tolerances (as should be expected for very expensive TOTL headphones - and it's my understanding that these manufacturers claim 1 db matching of drivers)? Why do my HD800 and T50RP measurements conducted at different times weeks apart show the same result test after test (not shown, but I would glady post them here)? Maybe 0.25db at most.

 

In the case of the T1 measurements (as with all others I've performed), care was taken to align and adjust pressure applied to the cups. Multiple measurements are also taken to ensure best case results. This aspect isn't too critical because my measuring rig seems to be very consistent with its results. 



 

post #30 of 83
Thread Starter 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by .Sup View Post

I wonder what Beyer's response about this would be

Quote:
Originally Posted by wind016 View Post


I wonder if they had two versions of T1. One that is treble heavy and one that isn't as much so. Maybe Purrin received a mix? Stupid idea, I know. =P

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dazedbus View Post

I don't disbelieve that you take great care in taking your measurements to make sure that everything is as similar as can be.  I think that the most valid area for us to be looking is the upper bass and midrange for channel imbalance.  Indeed in these areas the HD800 and sr-009 (innerfidelity since yours is not shown) have very good and reproduceable channel balance in these areas and this is something that your particular pair of T1s are quite off which is something that is quite concerning. 


I need more data. I only measured one sample, everything else is anecdotal. Tyll's data shows 2db off at 100Hz. The variance in the 8-10kHz region shouldn't be discounted either. Indeed this is concerning because these are expensive "flagship" headphones.

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