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The Neutral / Balanced Thread - Page 11

Poll Results: Best Neutral IEM and Headphone 2011 (Pick 1 IEM and 1 Headphone only)

This is a multiple choice poll
  • 18% (42)
    Etymotic ER-4S
  • 3% (7)
    Hifiman RE-272
  • 3% (9)
    Shure SE425
  • 1% (3)
    Sony EX510
  • 6% (15)
    Vsonic GR07
  • 3% (8)
    Westone UM3X
  • 8% (20)
    Audeze LCD-2
  • 13% (31)
    Sennheiser HD600
  • 11% (27)
    Sennheiser HD800
  • 7% (18)
    Beyerdynamic DT880
  • 3% (7)
    Shure SRH 840
  • 8% (19)
    AKG 702
  • 9% (21)
    Stax SR-009
  • 0% (1)
    Denon DN-HP1000
  • 0% (1)
    ESP950
  • 10% (24)
    Ultimate Ears Reference Monitor Custom
  • 3% (9)
    Unique Melody Miracle
  • 2% (6)
    KRK-KNS8400
  • 2% (5)
    Koss ESP950
226 Total Votes  
post #151 of 353

 

Well it's not very easy... I mean what is a neutral looking painting?

 

 

post #152 of 353

White?

post #153 of 353

 

Oh.

 

 

post #154 of 353

FYI: the Sony EX510s are IEMs.

post #155 of 353

Fischer Audio FA-003 needs to be added to the list.  How can it not when it's main discussion thread has a title like this? biggrin.gif

 

http://www.head-fi.org/t/491632/review-fischer-audio-fa-003-a-neutral-champ

post #156 of 353
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 12345142 View Post

FYI: the Sony EX510s are IEMs.


Fixed. :)

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasBuck View Post

Fischer Audio FA-003 needs to be added to the list.  How can it not when it's main discussion thread has a title like this? biggrin.gif

 

http://www.head-fi.org/t/491632/review-fischer-audio-fa-003-a-neutral-champ


Added. :)

 

post #157 of 353
Thread Starter 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kiteki View Post

 

Well it's not very easy... I mean what is a neutral looking painting?

 

 


A painting that resembles closely to the original photograph/scene?

 

post #158 of 353

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ham Sandwich View Post

One way to get an idea of what is real detail and what is hyped detail is to is to spend some time listening to a quality neutral headphone like the HD600 with a good manly amp.  That will train your ears to what is a normal level of detail for a quality standard dynamic headphone.  You'll hear details but they won't all jump out at you.  Some you'll have to listen for, but they'll be there when you listen for them.

 

Then go to a treblehead headphone or a hyped clarity headphone of the same general caliber as the HD600.  Details that you used to have to listen for will now jump out at you.  Various details will be easy to hear.   The headphone won't be delivering details that the HD600 didn't.  Rather it will be delivering details with hyped clarity or hyped emphasis.  That's what I snarkingly call "faux details".

 

Better drivers like stats and better orthodynamics can deliver more real detail than the HD600.  You can listen to a LCD-2 and hear things that the HD600 does not resolve.  That doesn't make the LCD-2 hyped (the LCD-2 is anything but hyped).  It just means the LCD-2 is capable of extracting more detail than the HD600 ever could and doing so in a very effortless and musical way.

 

V-shaped signatures generally fall under the fun listening category.  Though they can also fall in the hyped clarity category as well.  I can find v-shaped signatures to be difficult to listen to due to peaked treble.  Too much treble energy for me for my normal listening volume.  For low level volume listening a v-shaped signature can be nice because it mimics the Fletcher-Munson curve for low volume loudness compensation.  At higher listening levels (what I consider a normal listening level for primary listening) the v-shaped curves are not neutral or balanced and the treble bump gets to be annoying.


That makes sense. I appreciate the explanation.

 

I suppose my problem is lack of a good reference point, having not heard live music or a wide variety of headphones. I basically went from the AD700 to the Lambda (which isn't even stock, but modified with a thicker diaphragm and mineral wool filling removed) with an HTF600 on the side. All I know is that the Lambda is very revealing by comparison, but it tends to not exaggerate the volume of the low-level details. They're just clearer and not blurred over, if that makes sense. (One of these days, I'll have to find out if there are any headphone meets around Atlanta with an HD 600 and a competent amp to get a reference point for a detailed dynamic sound, and work from there.)

 

Come to think of it, the HTF600 seems V-shaped in perceived FR, and it's regarded as a "fun listening" headphone (as if you could expect any more in the $30-40 range). However, one or two people say that there's actually a peak at 1 KHz, whereas that frequency (as tested in SineGen) sounds like someone threw a blanket over it, along with 2 KHz and 4 KHz. (The rest of the spectrum, not so much...) Just jacking up 1 KHz on the EQ doesn't help, either.

post #159 of 353

Lovin' my 840's biggrin.gif

 

If only they had a wider soundstage...

post #160 of 353

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by nikp View Post


A painting that resembles closely to the original photograph/scene?

 


A painting of a colourful and saturated painting does not result in a neutral painting, please explain how can the original be saturated, and the clone can be neutral.

 

 

 

post #161 of 353
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kiteki View Post

 

A painting of a colourful and saturated painting does not result in a neutral painting, please explain how can the original be saturated, and the clone can be neutral.

 

 

 


It's just an analogy, there is no need to complicate things. There will never be headphones with a completely flat FR graph and even if there is, our ears cannot distinguish the differences. Here's a better analogy - photographs. Some photos are a bit blurry, some saturated and a few are exposed too much. 

post #162 of 353
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikp View Post

 

A painting that resembles closely to the original photograph/scene?

 



I think that would be a "natural" != neutral.

 

 

and Happy FA003 owner here! BTW I think the AKG K601 would fit here too, but much more soundstage, bright and extensions than the FA003

post #163 of 353

 

nikp so you are looking for completely flat FR as perceived at the eardrum is that correct?

 

or... are you looking for a headphone with the closest experience to real life?

 

 

It seems to me, that you think you're looking for something like this..........

 

If that's the case, maybe you should rename the thread to "The most realistic sounding IEM thread" instead of the current title.

 

 

 

 

post #164 of 353

This is why I think this thread is "harder" than the basshead thread, unfortunately.

post #165 of 353
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by R-Audiohead View Post

This is why I think this thread is "harder" than the basshead thread, unfortunately.



I agree.



Quote:
Originally Posted by kiteki View Post

 

nikp so you are looking for completely flat FR as perceived at the eardrum is that correct?

 

or... are you looking for a headphone with the closest experience to real life?

 

 

It seems to me, that you think you're looking for something like this..........

 

If that's the case, maybe you should rename the thread to "The most realistic sounding IEM thread" instead of the current title.


A flat frequency graph = accurate audio reproduction = neutral = closest to the "real" thing

 

Closest experience to real life? How does that makes sense?

 

edit: Furthermore, I think we should keep going instead of stuffing the thread with useless complications. 

 


Edited by nikp - 10/24/11 at 10:36pm
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