Head-Fi.org › Forums › Misc.-Category Forums › Members' Lounge (General Discussion) › The Neutral / Balanced Thread
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

The Neutral / Balanced Thread - Page 10

Poll Results: Best Neutral IEM and Headphone 2011 (Pick 1 IEM and 1 Headphone only)

This is a multiple choice poll
  • 18% (42)
    Etymotic ER-4S
  • 3% (7)
    Hifiman RE-272
  • 3% (9)
    Shure SE425
  • 1% (3)
    Sony EX510
  • 6% (15)
    Vsonic GR07
  • 3% (8)
    Westone UM3X
  • 8% (20)
    Audeze LCD-2
  • 13% (31)
    Sennheiser HD600
  • 11% (27)
    Sennheiser HD800
  • 7% (18)
    Beyerdynamic DT880
  • 3% (7)
    Shure SRH 840
  • 8% (19)
    AKG 702
  • 9% (21)
    Stax SR-009
  • 0% (1)
    Denon DN-HP1000
  • 0% (1)
    ESP950
  • 10% (24)
    Ultimate Ears Reference Monitor Custom
  • 3% (9)
    Unique Melody Miracle
  • 2% (6)
    KRK-KNS8400
  • 2% (5)
    Koss ESP950
226 Total Votes  
post #136 of 353

I don't see how neutrality can be cold.

 

For something to be neutral, it has no warmth and no coldness, no sweetness, no dryness, thickness, thinness, wetness or rainbowness. etc.

 

Characteristics like these can have to do with the magnetism, voice coil, driver(s), diaphragm, filter, housing, nozzle or tip and so on, and are seperate to an FR graph.

 

 

post #137 of 353

An example is an amplifier.

 

They are all perfectly balanced, and have dead flat FR, and yet people call them cold and warm all the time lol.

post #138 of 353
Quote:
Originally Posted by kiteki View Post

An example is an amplifier.

 

They are all perfectly balanced, and have dead flat FR, and yet people call them cold and warm all the time lol.


 

I don't want to get too much OT in this thread but can you explain to me why there's an added warmth when nothing in my setup changes except for the amplifier? Source, DAC, headphones, laptop, etc are all the same except for the amp. This is from a PPAv2 to V200 amp.
 

 

post #139 of 353

 

I can't explain that as I don't have enough experience of amplifier components, and I'm sure there's a technical reason for it, but I doubt it can be measured in the conventional measurements we see.

 

My hunch is both amplifiers will have the same frequency response on paper, and yet one sounds warmer than the other, so an FR is not enough data to conceive all the characteristics of sounds, even basic ones like warm VS cold.

 

From the amplifier example, I conclude that an FR isn't enough to measure headphones and IEM's, either.

 

This is just my opinion, what do you think, rawrster?

 

 

post #140 of 353
Quote:
Originally Posted by rawrster View Post




 

I don't want to get too much OT in this thread but can you explain to me why there's an added warmth when nothing in my setup changes except for the amplifier? Source, DAC, headphones, laptop, etc are all the same except for the amp. This is from a PPAv2 to V200 amp.
 

 



 

Believe it or not amplifiers each have their own sound signatures. The V200 is said to have warmth to a given degree. 

post #141 of 353

The Sony ex510 are very netruel iem's.

post #142 of 353
Quote:
Originally Posted by pigmode View Post

 

Believe it or not amplifiers each have their own sound signatures. The V200 is said to have warmth to a given degree. 



I'm not the one you have to convince. I got it because of that warmth but was trying to use that as an argument :p

 

post #143 of 353

^ ::thumbsup::

post #144 of 353
Quote:
Originally Posted by NamelessPFG View Post

How can you tell the difference between "real" detail and "fake" detail/exaggerated treble, anyway?

 

The AD700 was definitely a treblehead can, that's for sure. I'm just trying to figure out if the SR-Lambda also skews more toward treblehead than balanced, though I would think that electrostatic drivers by their very nature can reveal more "real" detail due to their speed/transient response.

 

For that matter, where the heck do V-shaped signatures fall under? They have both exaggerated bass and treble at the expense of horridly recessed mids...



One way to get an idea of what is real detail and what is hyped detail is to is to spend some time listening to a quality neutral headphone like the HD600 with a good manly amp.  That will train your ears to what is a normal level of detail for a quality standard dynamic headphone.  You'll hear details but they won't all jump out at you.  Some you'll have to listen for, but they'll be there when you listen for them.

 

Then go to a treblehead headphone or a hyped clarity headphone of the same general caliber as the HD600.  Details that you used to have to listen for will now jump out at you.  Various details will be easy to hear.   The headphone won't be delivering details that the HD600 didn't.  Rather it will be delivering details with hyped clarity or hyped emphasis.  That's what I snarkingly call "faux details".

 

Better drivers like stats and better orthodynamics can deliver more real detail than the HD600.  You can listen to a LCD-2 and hear things that the HD600 does not resolve.  That doesn't make the LCD-2 hyped (the LCD-2 is anything but hyped).  It just means the LCD-2 is capable of extracting more detail than the HD600 ever could and doing so in a very effortless and musical way.

 

V-shaped signatures generally fall under the fun listening category.  Though they can also fall in the hyped clarity category as well.  I can find v-shaped signatures to be difficult to listen to due to peaked treble.  Too much treble energy for me for my normal listening volume.  For low level volume listening a v-shaped signature can be nice because it mimics the Fletcher-Munson curve for low volume loudness compensation.  At higher listening levels (what I consider a normal listening level for primary listening) the v-shaped curves are not neutral or balanced and the treble bump gets to be annoying.

post #145 of 353

I think the K701, HD800 and HD25 are neutral.

 

Bring it!

post #146 of 353
Quote:
Originally Posted by pigmode View Post

 

Believe it or not amplifiers each have their own sound signatures. The V200 is said to have warmth to a given degree. 


then it's technically a bad amp. amps are suppose to be nothing but straight wire with gain. mostly all professional or well built amps are suppose to have a flat response across the spectrum with no so called ''sound signature'' of their own. most audio gear is just suppose to do there ''job'' and reproduce audio as accurate as possible but most these so called audiophiles love to ''color'' their sound. that's why term audiophile today is way different compared to audiophiles during the analog and golden era of audio. not meaning to sound like a d0uche or anything. i respect others opinion. just amps are not suppose to color anything at all in the topology design.

same thing goes for speakers and headphones. the best sound signature is no sound signature at all. it just does it's job.
post #147 of 353
Quote:
Originally Posted by 12345142 View Post

I think the K701, HD800 and HD25 are neutral.

 

Bring it!


AKG 240DF is more of a precision tool then any of them. sucks AKG discontinued them. only headphone that matches and surpasses the 240DF on some fronts(mostly just soundstage) is the k1000's.
post #148 of 353
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRG1990 View Post

The Sony ex510 are very netruel iem's.


 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by 12345142 View Post

I think the K701, HD800 and HD25 are neutral.

 

Bring it!


Added!

 

post #149 of 353

It's funny how often the HD800 and LCD-2 are hailed as extremely neutral and yet they couldn't possibly both be neutral because they sound so different. 

post #150 of 353

I don't think there is a standard for neutral as we all define it differently. I believe that's the same way for manufacturers and those that try to make their headphones neutral make it based on their definition of it. Many of these headphones on head-fi that I've heard that are regarded as neutral all sound different.

New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
Head-Fi.org › Forums › Misc.-Category Forums › Members' Lounge (General Discussion) › The Neutral / Balanced Thread