The Basshead Club - Page 329

I am pretty set on the M-100 but I want to try the Yamaha Pro 500 & M-100 out. Anyone know where in Colorado (Denver) one might do that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Golotripa 


Oh right that sounds like the smarter option.. I just never seem to get the same bass quality out of equalizing.. Maybe I just don't know how to fiddle with the equaliser properly.. I'll have another go at it

never eq the bass up, only eq everything else down. i use electriq on foobar and would recommend using a parametric eq. others use graphic ones and swear by them. if you want, pm me and ill recommend some settings or whatever, right now iv got to rush out for work -_-

good luck

Quote:

Originally Posted by adamlr 

never eq the bass up, only eq everything else down. i use electriq on foobar and would recommend using a parametric eq. others use graphic ones and swear by them. if you want, pm me and ill recommend some settings or whatever, right now iv got to rush out for work -_-

good luck

I'm pretty sure it doesn't matter which way you equalize because you're still limited by the potential of the amp/headphones. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trae 

Quote:

Originally Posted by adamlr 

never eq the bass up, only eq everything else down. i use electriq on foobar and would recommend using a parametric eq. others use graphic ones and swear by them. if you want, pm me and ill recommend some settings or whatever, right now iv got to rush out for work -_-

good luck

 

I'm pretty sure it doesn't matter which way you equalize because you're still limited by the potential of the amp/headphones. 

It's okay to EQ things up as long as you preamp down by the same, or more amount of dB to give it more headroom

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trae 

 

I'm pretty sure it doesn't matter which way you equalize because you're still limited by the potential of the amp/headphones. 

your right, ofcourse your limited by your headphones potential, not sure about your amps potential, im pretty sure any half decant amp will do, but i may very well be wrong.

however, what i meant was that if you boost the bass up, using an eq, you may hit 0 dbfs and then clipping will occur, obliterating all the quality and fun in having that massive bass. if im not mistaken, this can be fixed by reducing volume through the players volume control, and not boosting more than the amount you cut. i.e, if you reduce volume by 3db, you can boost bass by 3db and not have any clipping. (edit: i admit iv never done this myself, but it looks like Apo0th3karY agrees with me)

still, by equalizing the not-bass down, your options for boosting are basically limitless, allowing you to boost as much as you like. or atleast, nothing is limiting you other than your gear.

for arguments sake, im using dt 770s with an O2 (and previously with a cmoy or e11) and i sometimes boost by 15db, or even higher. im a sucker for a good sub bass rumble =]

which connects me back to what you said about amps limiting your eq potential actually. because i did notice that while using the cmoy or e11, while no clipping would occur, if i didnt have the volume control high enough, i wouldnt be able to get the right amount of bass, no matter how much eqing i did (this went away if the volume was high enough, past a certain point). with the O2, even at low volumes, i always get a response to any eq adjustments.

so what im saying, is that in my own very limited experience, if you have a good amp, an equalizer opens the door to unlimited bass, without spending a single cent. this way, you also get the added bonus of options for playing around like what i do for example. i boost mid bass by 3-5 db, while i boost sub bass by an additional  5-10 db, all depending on the song.

one mustnt forget though, that if the music your listening to is of poor quality, or just doesnt have any bass in it - no eqing will help. i think this is the reason some people still prefer using hardware equalizing, because the e11 for example, boosting anything lower than 1khz, can give the illusion of a bass slam, even when theres no actual bass present.

late edit: what i meant to say was not that all hardware bass boosts give "fake bass". rather that because of the eq settings on many of them, they CAN create a sort of "fake bass", due to them boosting alot of the low mids aswell, giving an illusion of bass presence, even when the track itself doesnt have any bass to speak of.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Golotripa 

Well I am looking to have it supplement a tube amp which obviously won't have a bass boost feature. Probably won't go for e12 as it is lacking in bass boosting feature.. ATM thinking of e11 or headstage arrow.. Anybody know which is better? And are there any other better bass boost alternatives?

For your intents and purposes, if you want an enitrely portable rig, with bass boost that will satisfy for $500, go with the Headstage Arrow, and double amp with the ZO2. Leave bass boost OFF on the Arrow, and use the ZO to EQ the bass to taste.... hey that rhymed XD

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apo0th3karY 

For your intents and purposes, if you want an enitrely portable rig, with bass boost that will satisfy for $500, go with the Headstage Arrow, and double amp with the ZO2. Leave bass boost OFF on the Arrow, and use the ZO to EQ the bass to taste.... hey that rhymed XD

What are your thoughts on the Headstage Arrow compared to other portable amps?

Quote:

Originally Posted by adamlr 

your right, ofcourse your limited by your headphones potential, not sure about your amps potential, im pretty sure any half decant amp will do, but i may very well be wrong.

 

however, what i meant was that if you boost the bass up, using an eq, you may hit 0 dbfs and then clipping will occur, obliterating all the quality and fun in having that massive bass. if im not mistaken, this can be fixed by reducing volume through the players volume control, and not boosting more than the amount you cut. i.e, if you reduce volume by 3db, you can boost bass by 3db and not have any clipping.

 

still, by equalizing the not-bass down, your options for boosting are basically limitless, allowing you to boost as much as you like. or atleast, nothing is limiting you other than your gear.

for arguments sake, im using dt 770s with an O2 (and previously with a cmoy or e11) and i sometimes boost by 15db, or even higher. im a sucker for a good sub bass rumble =]

 

which connects me back to what you said about amps limiting your eq potential actually. because i did notice that while using the cmoy or e11, while no clipping would occur, if i didnt have the volume control high enough, i wouldnt be able to get the right amount of bass, no matter how much eqing i did (this went away if the volume was high enough, past a certain point). with the O2, even at low volumes, i always get a response to any eq adjustments.

 

so what im saying, is that in my own very limited experience, if you have a good amp, an equalizer opens the door to unlimited bass, without spending a single cent. this way, you also get the added bonus of options for playing around like what i do for example. i boost mid bass by 3-5 db, while i boost sub bass by 5-10 db, all depending on the song.

 

one mustnt forget though, that if the music your listening to is of poor quality, or just doesnt have any bass in it - no eqing will help. i think this is the reason some people still prefer using hardware equalizing, because the e11 for example, boosting anything lower than 1khz, can give the illusion of a bass slam, even when theres no actual bass present.

First paragraph: amps pump out different voltage swings, output impedances, current, etc. and those variables have an influence on how loud the amp is able to drive the headphones. More power = louder volume without distortion. 

Second paragraph: Yeah, that's what I do. First, I find an audio level that I'm most content to listening to and I max out the bass on the equalizer. So basically, the lower frequency's dB intensity is near the threshold of what the amplifier is able to drive without distortion while the rest of the frequencies are at a more appropriate level. I have about 35dB of the bass boost (+10dB from the receiver and around +25dB from the equalizer), but the volume on the receiver stays at a constant volume (55--any higher and I get hiss), and the volume slider on foobar is usually around 35% (10-25%=low, 26-35%= medium, 36-60-ish= loud, limited by the bass clipping) . I've done tons of experimenting on equalizing and whatnot, and this is the best setup for me. This setup allows me to attain the maximum bass volume while having the most volume overhead and have the rest of the frequencies at a moderate level. The downside is that the volume is pretty sensitive since the bass is up so high, and the bass loudness becomes a limiting factor on how loud I can get because it will start clipping before the other frequencies do. 

Third paragraph: Well, you're limited by the volume slider because when you eq everything else down, you have to move up the volume more in order to get the loudness you want. I tend to eq up because every song is mastered at different gain settings, and I like extra volume overhead for those purposes. When you throw Replay Gain in the mix, every song is forced to have a recommended 89dB internal volume (most songs are above that by 5+ dB), which means that the gain for that particular song is lower than what it was before. That correlates to adjusting the volume a bit higher in order to compensate. If you eq down, that means that the volume has to be adjusted even more in order to get the loudness you want. So really, you have to increase the preamp volume in order to equal everything out. So like I said before, eq'ing up or down really doesn't matter because you'll still end at the same road. I just tend to eq up because of the aforementioned reasons, and because it's easier for me. Would you rather up the 4KHz range by 2dB or lower everything except the 4KHz range by 2dB? That's basically what the differences between your method and my method of equalizing are. The end result is the same, but mine is louder. 

Fourth paragraph: Like I said, more powerful amp= more volume without distortion. That one fact is making it extremely hard to keep myself from buying a Schiit Lyr. 40v and 6W in 32ohms...shudders...but when you have something that powerful, you'll be limited by the drivers themselves because they'll probably blow before the amp tops out, or your ears won't be able to take that much dB intensity and sound pressure. 

Fifth paragraph: That sounds tedious. I just have two graphic eq settings that I use in foobar that I never change. If the bass starts clipping on a particular song, I just dial the volume down a grade and we're golden.  

Sixth paragraph: That doesn't make sense. All a bass boost is is increasing the volume of the lower frequencies while leaving the rest the same. Then again, it depends on what frequency range the bass boost switch is responsible for increasing. So, let's say that you have the 6.5dB bass boost switch on, that means the bass will distort 6.5dB earlier than usual because the volume on it is higher. The switch isn't free bass. It still runs off of the same amplifier. Bass boost is essentially a volume switch for the lower frequencies.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trae 

 

Sixth paragraph: That doesn't make sense. All a bass boost is is increasing the volume of the lower frequencies while leaving the rest the same. Then again, it depends on what frequency range the bass boost switch is responsible for increasing. So, let's say that you have the 6.5dB bass boost switch on, that means the bass will distort 6.5dB earlier than usual because the volume on it is higher. The switch isn't free bass. It still runs off of the same amplifier. Bass boost is essentially a volume switch for the lower frequencies.

im at work and have to go do work related thing, so unfortuneatly, a full response will have to wait till tomorrow. i just wanted to better explain what i meant to say.

as youve pointed out, a bass boost switch is basically a volume switch for the lower frequencies, and it all depends on what frequencies your adding volume to. so if someone is looking to "add" bass to a song that (for whatever reason) is lacking in it, a booster like the e11 has may give the illusion that such bass was "added" because it boosts alot of the midrange aswell, and will accentuate the low-mids aswell. so that notes in the 300hz range (for example) will be louder, giving the feeling of a low end boost, even if that specific song dosnt have much of a low end (250hz and lower) to begin with.

i mentioned hardware eqing because the e11, or cmoy, or many others boost more than just the bass. it depends ofcourse on the boost settings, not on hardware vs software. sorry for being unclear, and sorry for any spelling mistakes i may have in this post, this computer doesnt seem to have the spell checker enabled.

Ah, okay. You were just talking about your E11. I was reading that paragraph in the perspective that all hardware bass boosts will give you the illusion of more bass, which I knew wasn't the case.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trae 

 

First paragraph: amps pump out different voltage swings, output impedances, current, etc. and those variables have an influence on how loud the amp is able to drive the headphones. More power = louder volume without distortion. 

 

Second paragraph: Yeah, that's what I do. First, I find an audio level that I'm most content to listening to and I max out the bass on the equalizer. So basically, the lower frequency's dB intensity is near the threshold of what the amplifier is able to drive without distortion while the rest of the frequencies are at a more appropriate level. I have about 35dB of the bass boost (+10dB from the receiver and around +25dB from the equalizer), but the volume on the receiver stays at a constant volume (55--any higher and I get hiss), and the volume slider on foobar is usually around 35% (10-25%=low, 26-35%= medium, 36-60-ish= loud, limited by the bass clipping) . I've done tons of experimenting on equalizing and whatnot, and this is the best setup for me. This setup allows me to attain the maximum bass volume while having the most volume overhead and have the rest of the frequencies at a moderate level. The downside is that the volume is pretty sensitive since the bass is up so high, and the bass loudness becomes a limiting factor on how loud I can get because it will start clipping before the other frequencies do. 

 

Third paragraph: Well, you're limited by the volume slider because when you eq everything else down, you have to move up the volume more in order to get the loudness you want. I tend to eq up because every song is mastered at different gain settings, and I like extra volume overhead for those purposes. When you throw Replay Gain in the mix, every song is forced to have a recommended 89dB internal volume (most songs are above that by 5+ dB), which means that the gain for that particular song is lower than what it was before. That correlates to adjusting the volume a bit higher in order to compensate. If you eq down, that means that the volume has to be adjusted even more in order to get the loudness you want. So really, you have to increase the preamp volume in order to equal everything out. So like I said before, eq'ing up or down really doesn't matter because you'll still end at the same road. I just tend to eq up because of the aforementioned reasons, and because it's easier for me. Would you rather up the 4KHz range by 2dB or lower everything except the 4KHz range by 2dB? That's basically what the differences between your method and my method of equalizing are. The end result is the same, but mine is louder. 

 

Fourth paragraph: Like I said, more powerful amp= more volume without distortion. That one fact is making it extremely hard to keep myself from buying a Schiit Lyr. 40v and 6W in 32ohms...shudders...but when you have something that powerful, you'll be limited by the drivers themselves because they'll probably blow before the amp tops out, or your ears won't be able to take that much dB intensity and sound pressure. 

 

Fifth paragraph: That sounds tedious. I just have two graphic eq settings that I use in foobar that I never change. If the bass starts clipping on a particular song, I just dial the volume down a grade and we're golden.  

 

Sixth paragraph: That doesn't make sense. All a bass boost is is increasing the volume of the lower frequencies while leaving the rest the same. Then again, it depends on what frequency range the bass boost switch is responsible for increasing. So, let's say that you have the 6.5dB bass boost switch on, that means the bass will distort 6.5dB earlier than usual because the volume on it is higher. The switch isn't free bass. It still runs off of the same amplifier. Bass boost is essentially a volume switch for the lower frequencies.

1) alright, thank you for clearing that up.

2+3) lets see if i understood you correctly. on foobar, you have the volume slider on a low volume and you boost the bass by a corresponding amount, while adding some extra boost with your receiver and keeping your amp at a high volume? i found it abit hard to understand your method im afraid (my english is good but its not my mother tongue). but you yourself said it was basically the same, but yours is louder. 

well, i dont listen at loud volumes, but i still dont understand why your way would be louder? you max the volume on the amp and control volume digitally, i max the volume digitally and control volume on the amp. besides channel imbalance issues that may arise (which would actually be a good reason to use digital volume control), this does seem to be pretty much the same thing. and yes, replay gain does force me to adjust the volume very often, but i change the boost settings for almost every song individually anyway, which also forces me to do the same. 

i just think its more intuitive and user friendly do do it my way. 

i recommended doing things my way because i dont know any other way and because its a simple, efficient way to bass boost without clipping. ofcourse its not the only way and other options are available. so long as you eq right, and dont reach up into clipping, its all good. i just think that alot of people dont understand how eqs work and get bad results with them, only because they dont know how to use them, and then dismiss the eq as a bad tool, when really, its one of the most powerful, useful tools an audio enthusiast can have, not to mention you can compensate for frequency peaks that can be very fatiguing. 

4) are you a very loud listener? nonetheless, im beginning to understand (or rather - experience) the advantages of having a powerful amp, but i dont want to comment any further because i really dont know what im talking about, and i said so in my op. i thank you again for explaining things further for me.

5) tedious? i call it fun . i like a strong sub bass rumble, but some songs (like alot of the downtempo electronical stuff) have quite abit of it by themselves and my usual settings can make it too loud, and even painful, so i dial it down. some songs only have a mid bass punch, so theres no point in boosting sub bass, cause it has no effect, and i boost the mid bass instead. and on the odd occasion, i come across a song with alot of low mids, where a bass boost as big as mine just twists the song, and makes it sound all wrong, and then i dial the boost waaay down, and enjoy the mids =]

6) weve already discussed this one, and iv added an edit on the op, just incase anyone else gets confused by my poor explanation.

Quote:

Originally Posted by adamlr 

1) alright, thank you for clearing that up.

2+3) lets see if i understood you correctly. on foobar, you have the volume slider on a low volume and you boost the bass by a corresponding amount, while adding some extra boost with your receiver and keeping your amp at a high volume? i found it abit hard to understand your method im afraid (my english is good but its not my mother tongue). but you yourself said it was basically the same, but yours is louder. 

well, i dont listen at loud volumes, but i still dont understand why your way would be louder? you max the volume on the amp and control volume digitally, i max the volume digitally and control volume on the amp. besides channel imbalance issues that may arise (which would actually be a good reason to use digital volume control), this does seem to be pretty much the same thing. and yes, replay gain does force me to adjust the volume very often, but i change the boost settings for almost every song individually anyway, which also forces me to do the same. 

i just think its more intuitive and user friendly do do it my way. 

i recommended doing things my way because i dont know any other way and because its a simple, efficient way to bass boost without clipping. ofcourse its not the only way and other options are available. so long as you eq right, and dont reach up into clipping, its all good. i just think that alot of people dont understand how eqs work and get bad results with them, only because they dont know how to use them, and then dismiss the eq as a bad tool, when really, its one of the most powerful, useful tools an audio enthusiast can have, not to mention you can compensate for frequency peaks that can be very fatiguing. 

 

4) are you a very loud listener? nonetheless, im beginning to understand (or rather - experience) the advantages of having a powerful amp, but i dont want to comment any further because i really dont know what im talking about, and i said so in my op. i thank you again for explaining things further for me.

 

5) tedious? i call it fun . i like a strong sub bass rumble, but some songs (like alot of the downtempo electronical stuff) have quite abit of it by themselves and my usual settings can make it too loud, and even painful, so i dial it down. some songs only have a mid bass punch, so theres no point in boosting sub bass, cause it has no effect, and i boost the mid bass instead. and on the odd occasion, i come across a song with alot of low mids, where a bass boost as big as mine just twists the song, and makes it sound all wrong, and then i dial the boost waaay down, and enjoy the mids =]

 

6) weve already discussed this one, and iv added an edit on the op, just incase anyone else gets confused by my poor explanation.

I'm not really a loud listener. I just like to have a lot of bass at low-medium volumes. I've set the volume on my receiver to deliver the cleanest signal without hissing or clipping (54 seems to be the sweet spot), and I've put the bass on +10dB. On the software side of things, I've eq'ed the bass to the peak the amp inside the receiver is able to handle, and I only use the volume control on foobar to adjust the volume. Depending on the song, the bass can clip with the volume slider on 25%, where on other songs it can clip when the volume is at around 75%. In those cases, I, like you, have to eq some things down, but I only have a handful of songs like that, so it isn't all that bad. 90% of my songs usually clip out when my volume slider is at around 60%, but I can only take that volume for a minute or two. 

What I mean't by mine is louder isn't the way I have my rig set up, but how we eq. Simply put, when you eq down, it's going to be quieter than eq'ing up. In order to balance it out you have to up the pre-amp, whereas for me I just eq up a certain frequency and I'm done. Well, at least that's how I think you eq based off of what you said. I'll just throw up some pics of my eq settings in order to clarify. 

I have two instances of Electri-Q set up in foobar, so I run both of these simultaneously. When I run across one of my odd songs that clip at low volumes, I usually disable the second one. 

EDIT: This is my first time using Electri-Q, so I'm still trying to find my sweet spot for the bass area.