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** Confessions of a Failing Audiophile ** - I hated the LCD2 - Page 35  

post #511 of 631

Beautiful looking headphone with the Jmoney headband.

post #512 of 631


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by swbf2cheater View Post
 Also, the LCD2 and the Edition 8 were by far the worst performers for on the fly spacial positioning....which means gaming.  They were absolutely, positively horrendous for shooters like Call of Duty or Battlefield.  I couldn't tell where any sounds were placed, guys standing right in front of me were not matching up with were the headphones where telling my ears they actually were. Shockingly, both of these sets were absolutely astounding performers for soundscape tracks like those recorded by Naturescape.  

 

 


 

I'm not a gamer so I have no first-hand experience with how modern games do the positional audio and if they do anything special for headphone vs. speaker.  Are they doing something like Dolby Headphone processing if you tell the game you're using headphones?  If they're doing special processing for headphones then I'd suspect they're doing a very wrong HRTF for the LCD2.  The LCD2 has a unique frequency plot.  Upper mids and treble is shelved down.  If they're assuming a "normal" headphone then the HRTF they're using could be very wrong for the LCD2.  Some of the Stax headphones (like the 007 and 009 and some others) also do a similar shelving just like the LCD2.  Has anyone tried the Stax with gaming?  How do they do?  It might be that a game would need to allow you to make a custom HRTF (like what the Smyth Realiser allows) in order for the LCD2 or Stax to work right with gaming.  I don't know if any games allow for making a custom HRTF to match your personal hearing and headphones.  Some of the reviews of the Smyth Realiser say it does very well with the LCD2.  So it may not be a weakness inherent in the LCD2, just a weakness of the games assuming a wrong HRTF.

post #513 of 631

 

Maybe the game had Dolby Surround on :P

post #514 of 631
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gwarmi View Post

Beautiful looking headphone with the Jmoney headband.


Mmmm.  Indeed :)

 

1000x500px-LL-95daf439_PB210145.JPG

 

1000x500px-LL-65b8f7df_PB210146.JPG

 

And just for giggles

 

1000x500px-LL-1636581d_PB210142.JPG

 

Also, I tested multiple settings and audio mid tier audio cards and found the Fatality Xfi pro to be the best performer for pure gaming needs, but enjoyed another Fatality series card for music.  needs. For COD, dolby is pure nonsense and does not mesh with the game in the slightest. Pretty much all the pro gamers refuse to activate any special settings the audio card or game will provide and always keep it on "Headphones or Speaker" mode.  I agree with this method.

Its great for movies and such, not so good for gaming despite what gaming headphones manufacturers say.  Mw2 was unplayable with any other settings active.  If anyone has the ability to do so, check out the Sennheiser MX980 EARBUDS for live gaming needs...crazy accurate lol...You can place sounds almost perfectly, I could hear almost exactly where people were sneaking around, Ninja Pro and stabbers stood no chance...thank god for that package marker glitch patch up that came early on, i remember the days when it didnt matter if you heard someone coming, you were dead before you saw them via a knife to the face because you can run lightning fast with the care package marker active in your hand rofl :P

 

 

 I am not sure if Ortho headphones are set up to perform well with live sounds.  I remember trying to watch Superman with the LCD2 and He500, once all the action started I paused the movie, put them away and went right back to the HD 598.  

 

post #515 of 631
Quote:
Originally Posted by swbf2cheater View Post


 My theory that explains this that the Audeze has insane depth and good height in soundstaging but had severely disproportionate width.  It made these genres sound off, odd and lopsided to me.  ( problems the He500 did not have ) Also, the LCD2 and the Edition 8 were by far the worst performers for on the fly spacial positioning....which means gaming.  They were absolutely, positively horrendous for shooters like Call of Duty or Battlefield.  I couldn't tell where any sounds were placed, guys standing right in front of me were not matching up with were the headphones where telling my ears they actually were. Shockingly, both of these sets were absolutely astounding performers for soundscape tracks like those recorded by Naturescape.  


Huh, almost sounds like a reversed polarity in one of the cups. I played around with those settings in jriver once and it messes with my brain playing binaural tracks because the phase cues don't match up with the amplitude cues.

 

Oh man, that would be a horrible prank to play on a guy's gaming headphones...

 

post #516 of 631
Quote:
Originally Posted by swbf2cheater View Post

 

 I felt the LCD2 to be overshadowed by the HD800, HE500, T1 and yes even the Grado PS1K and Denon d7000 for classical, jazz, older recordings produced before the digital age, big band, and pretty much anything recorded live.  My theory that explains this that the Audeze has insane depth and good height in soundstaging but had severely disproportionate width.  It made these genres sound off, odd and lopsided to me.  ( problems the He500 did not have ) Also, the LCD2 and the Edition 8 were by far the worst performers for on the fly spacial positioning....which means gaming.  They were absolutely, positively horrendous for shooters like Call of Duty or Battlefield.  I couldn't tell where any sounds were placed, guys standing right in front of me were not matching up with were the headphones where telling my ears they actually were. Shockingly, both of these sets were absolutely astounding performers for soundscape tracks like those recorded by Naturescape.

 


 

Not really surprising since with those soundscape tracks you don't even know where the sounds are supposed to come from without visual reference.

post #517 of 631


What are those extra pad's cushions on the Grado?  They look very comfy. Also do you notice an improved stage?
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by swbf2cheater View Post

Mmmm.  Indeed :)

 

1000x500px-LL-95daf439_PB210145.JPG

 

1000x500px-LL-65b8f7df_PB210146.JPG

 

And just for giggles

 

1000x500px-LL-1636581d_PB210142.JPG

 

Also, I tested multiple settings and audio mid tier audio cards and found the Fatality Xfi pro to be the best performer for pure gaming needs, but enjoyed another Fatality series card for music.  needs. For COD, dolby is pure nonsense and does not mesh with the game in the slightest. Pretty much all the pro gamers refuse to activate any special settings the audio card or game will provide and always keep it on "Headphones or Speaker" mode.  I agree with this method.

Its great for movies and such, not so good for gaming despite what gaming headphones manufacturers say.  Mw2 was unplayable with any other settings active.  If anyone has the ability to do so, check out the Sennheiser MX980 EARBUDS for live gaming needs...crazy accurate lol...You can place sounds almost perfectly, I could hear almost exactly where people were sneaking around, Ninja Pro and stabbers stood no chance...thank god for that package marker glitch patch up that came early on, i remember the days when it didnt matter if you heard someone coming, you were dead before you saw them via a knife to the face because you can run lightning fast with the care package marker active in your hand rofl :P

 

 

 I am not sure if Ortho headphones are set up to perform well with live sounds.  I remember trying to watch Superman with the LCD2 and He500, once all the action started I paused the movie, put them away and went right back to the HD 598.  

 



 

post #518 of 631
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Twinster View Post

What are those extra pad's cushions on the Grado?  They look very comfy. Also do you notice an improved stage? 

 

http://www.head-fi.org/t/524252/grado-325i-woodies-swbf2cheater-earpad-mod-56k-warning

 

:)

post #519 of 631


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by CafeNoir View Post

Hi Mike,

I didn't read all the pages, but I read your first post and understand very much your feeling.

Here are my reflections on the subject. I apologise for my bad english, as it is not my native language.

 

-Probably your biggest mistake was to be an active head-fier. During my audiophile journey, I soon came to the conclusion that Head-Fi.org is probably one of the biggest sources of misinformation about high-fidelity on the internet. The main reasons for this being lack of experience, and blind fanboyism, which overwhelm the very thoughtful contributions that you can find. Every single thread that I read now is quite loaded with nonsensical arguments and false claims. Step back a little, and you will realize how Head-fi is very easily the cause of massive damage for your time, wallet and ears, with flavour-of-the-month products being praised as ultimate giant killer to be soon dismissed by the new offerings. How much time and money has been wasted on things that head-fi has been actively promoting is mindboggling. Paradoxically, going out in your nearer high-fi shop, and listening to some gears would take you one afternoon and be a lot more constructive than reading tons and tons of threads to determine what is the best gear ever.

 

-Secondly, I have also experienced that most of the gear out there is mediocre at best. Particularly headphones. Most of the time they sound completely off and so far from realism that one can ask himself if it was really heard at all by the designers before being released. This includes AKG, Beyer, Sony, Denon, Audio-Technica, Sennheiser. Probably the single headphone that was worth something when I heard it was the Stax Omega. Me too, I thought the Audeze LCD-2 was different, it was not. It could not provide a balanced frequency response and a decent soundstage (I am talking about LCD2 rev1). Those flaws were very well perceived and talked about on European forums since the beginning, while the consensus of praise was to last on and on here on Head-Fi before some reasonable criticism would finally appear.

Yes, some headphones categorized as "mid-fi" are much better than most of the new "high-end" generation. The Senns HD-598 is a good example, as well as the Denon D2000, or Sennheiser HD-650. But this may change in the future.

 

To sum up, your misfortune is the consequence of your attachment to Head-fi, your gullibility, and a zest of bad luck. Getting out of it is not easy because you feel like a fool after investing so much time and energy into your passion to realize it was for nothing. In my opinion, your downgrading was already a very good step, and I believe your present system achieves very satisfactory results. If later you ever feel the need to attain higher fidelity, well; trust your ears, and take advice from knowledgeable people. You will have a higher chance to be satisfied.

 



Headfi.org  certainly has no monopoly on misinformation where the Internet is concerned.  Any popular chat site on virtually any subject could be criticized in a similar manner.  It is not the sites, it is what you take from them, how you utilize them, how you 'filter' the information and opinions, and a myriad of other factors.  There's never been any shortage of opinions, and that won't be changing anytime soon.  Informed or misinformed, with hidden interests, and or with good or bad intentions, they are produced by everyone on a more regular basis than feces and have about as much value in many cases.  If you actually rely upon the Internet for unadulterated, accurate and honest information from reliable sources you need to wake up. 

 

What is this "misfortune" that has befallen the poor OP?  Lets see, he got involved in a hobby, read some input from others and decided to try a product which turned out to not meet his expectations.  Wow.  Cue the violin music and pass the Kleenex!  He likes something else he owns better that costs less.  Fantastic.  Sell the expensive thing (pretty easy at a relatively small loss) and use and enjoy the cheaper one that you prefer.  What's the big deal?  The OP discovered his threshold of diminishing return on investment is different than some others, and or that he has a different opinion than others on how an item performs.  Well, that was a learning experience.  Why should he feel like a fool?  He tried something out that came highly recommended by many others and he found out that he did not like it.  What's foolish in that? Welcome to the hobby.  Sell the cans and cut your losses.  The point of buying them in the first place is to enjoy music - why not put your money and energy into that and stop dwelling on what you don't like.  There's a whole lot of whining around this kind of stuff and it amazes me that folks need to vent this way. Get over it. Move on.  Let us know about stuff you DO actually enjoy (as you have within the context of this thread).  I'm not saying there should be no critical feedback here, or that the OP was out of line with his original post (completely valid and useful, and bravo for posting an opinion that goes against the grain - I don't share it, but good on'ya for speaking your mind), but some developments in this thread, as in the post quoted above, just perpetuates a whole lot of victim-based whining that we could all do with less of, thank you very much. It's a hobby, the enjoyment of which is entirely subjective.  It never ceases to amaze me that so many clamor for the reviews of a handful of individuals with lots of experience to speak their minds on certain components - OK, yeah, that's a very valid jumping off point, but it's not the last word on the subject and the immortal acronym used by many in sharing such views is worth repeating: YMMV (you will actually see some of the more respected reviewers actually use this term - in point of fact, it should go entirely without saying whether stated or not).  I am of the opinion there is no "absolute sound" that everyone prefers.  If there were, all systems would sound the same and everyone would be purchasing just those systems that conformed.  There is no more a best headphone then there is a best wine or best car.  Ultimately, it really comes down to what you like, not what some critic prefers, and not what the masses embrace. 


Edited by jax - 10/20/11 at 10:10am
post #520 of 631
Thread Starter 

Yea, the victim spotlight was shined on me.  As I said before the thread was meant to vent my frustrations for having a view that was "against the grain" as you put it.  I didn't see anything in this set of headphones that would ever let me rate it as well as others do and I felt really crappy for it, like I failed myself or and seemingly all other audiophiles.  I was definitely out of line in the original post.. I intended to be :D

 

Time for someone to stand up and fight for something more user friendly in the expensive sets.  Audeze didn't learn anything, nor will any of the other companies.  I am just one guy with a view that opposes pretty much all audiophiles, maybe once sets because as large as pillows and reach 500-600grams in weight and require levels of amplification as the HE6 does, I might get a stronger backing who protest.  Until then, I'll be standing alone somewhere in the corner lol :P

 

<3 

post #521 of 631
Quote:
Originally Posted by swbf2cheater View Post

Yea, the victim spotlight was shined on me.  As I said before the thread was meant to vent my frustrations for having a view that was "against the grain" as you put it.  I didn't see anything in this set of headphones that would ever let me rate it as well as others do and I felt really crappy for it, like I failed myself or and seemingly all other audiophiles.  I was definitely out of line in the original post.. I intended to be :D

 

Time for someone to stand up and fight for something more user friendly in the expensive sets.  Audeze didn't learn anything, nor will any of the other companies.  I am just one guy with a view that opposes pretty much all audiophiles, maybe once sets because as large as pillows and reach 500-600grams in weight and require levels of amplification as the HE6 does, I might get a stronger backing who protest.  Until then, I'll be standing alone somewhere in the corner lol :P

 

<3 


Well, with statements like: "I felt really crappy for it, like I failed myself or and seemingly all other audiophiles." you seem to be bolstering the idea that there is some contingent of individuals who know better than you do what you should like, and who actually need your support.  Why?  You don't owe anything to anyone in terms of forming your own opinions.  Again, I'd say, get over it and move on.  It's not a drum worth banging and it perpetuates the wrong ideas, IMHO.  There is no one out there who knows better what you like than you do.  Try things out and find out what works best for you.  If it doesn't work for you, sell it and move on.  That's pretty much how the hobby has worked best for me. 

 

Audeze has designed a product that most of their target base actually like, and that sells very well.  The design, size and weight are probably largely based upon the current (ortho) technology, along with their idea of how to implement in an appealing package.  You certainly will never please everyone where that is concerned.  There are plenty of options out there in size and weight that will be more to your liking in almost every price range.  My guess is that most of the orthos are large and heavy by the necessity of housing their drivers and delivering the best sound from them.  Again, not sure what you need to "fight" for.   There are certainly others who aren't that fond of Audeze.  So don't feel lonely.  Again, why not start thread about the things you do like rather than beating the recently demised horse of a thread of what you don't like.  I'm pretty sure everyone gets it after 35 pages.

 

post #522 of 631
Quote:
Originally Posted by jax View Post

 

 What is this "misfortune" that has befallen the poor OP?  Lets see, he got involved in a hobby, read some input from others and decided to try a product which turned out to not meet his expectations.  Wow.  Cue the violin music and pass the Kleenex!

^ one of the funniest statements in all of head-fi
 

 


Edited by DavidMahler - 10/20/11 at 11:59am
post #523 of 631

+1

 

We have all had this experience.  It is just part of learning.

post #524 of 631

What a soap opera.

Talk about striving for 15 minutes (15 megabytes) of fame.  And not the first time.

 

My vote for the most melodramatic poster on Headfi goes to............

"Failed audiophile", fighting the good fight to force manufacturers to comply with his specifications for what an "expensive" headphone should be; and he fights alone, what a champion, err victim.

 

Theatrical, over dramatic rubbish.


Edited by Kernmac - 10/20/11 at 12:57pm
post #525 of 631
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jax View Post

Well, with statements like: "I felt really crappy for it, like I failed myself or and seemingly all other audiophiles." you seem to be bolstering the idea that there is some contingent of individuals who know better than you do what you should like, and who actually need your support.  Why?  

 

My old self 10 years ago would have beat the crap out of me and given me a wedgie for wearing the LCD2.  He would have sucker punched me in the face for purchasing a $900 set of headphones that came with a terrible cable and was that large and bulky.  It looks absolutely ridiculous on my head and it looks equally as silly on other peoples heads.  I am just not okay with this anymore, 99.99999% of others in the audiophile community disregard it and don't care, so of course I think maybe I've fallen from grace so to speak lol.  I have already posted many threads about how much I love certain gear, some were topics that didn't review anything, just me proclaiming my love for whatever piece of said gear.  I've been there and done that. 

 

Somewhere along the tracks, I fell of the proverbial train of simply enjoying the music and not being so analytical, and boarded the train of ignoring what normal people consider to be silly for the sake of my status as an audiophile.  I have a problem now justifying such an expensive set of headphones.  Audeze and HiFiMan know that you guys will buy anything that says Ortho on it even if it comes with a craptastic cable or earpads.  They know you guys will likely do the opposite of what normal people would do and jump at the chance to purchase a $200 + third party cable.  They know you will disregard a ton of flaws and bypass weight and bulk for the sake of pure clarity or sonic qualities.  

 

I can no longer do this.  I might be alone in this view and I am definitely well within the realm of justification for feeling like I do because of it. I ask if there is something wrong with me or if this means I did fail my friends and the audiophile community in general.  I feel like I have.  I really hated it, I found more cons than pros in the LCD2.  I don't know what else to say lol :P  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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