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Audiophile cables, an interesting question. - Page 59

post #871 of 1186
Quote:
Originally Posted by esldude View Post
 


Care to point which direction in audio cables the electrical pressure is?  As an AC signal it generally has no direction over any length of time.  Goes one way and then the next.


Further, if the effect is real it will change the measurements as we can measure below what we can hear in a number of ways.  Measurements don't show a change.

 

Depends on which convention you use. Luckily, the whole AC signal isn't a problem because power supplies convert from AC to DC. It's really crazy!! 

 

You guys should just try this stuff out. It has nothing to do with distortion levels, measurements, or any of that ********. Until you actually know how this stuff works on the theoretical and practical levels, by which I mean engineer your own DAC, cables, etc. from beginning to end, just listen to it. One thing I learned is it is never about knowing the equations. All models are wrong, and some models are useful. Any ******* can sit at home on wikipedia and memorize equations. Take home something like a BDA-1 and plug it into your normal system that you know by heart, and you'll hear the difference.

 

Also, here is an excellent article on feedback in amplifiers from a guy who makes better amplifiers than the one you have (probably). https://passlabs.com/articles/audio-distortion-and-feedback


Edited by lids369 - 6/4/14 at 9:25pm
post #872 of 1186
Quote:
Originally Posted by lids369 View Post
 

 

Depends on which convention you use. Luckily, the whole AC signal isn't a problem because power supplies convert from AC to DC. It's really crazy!! 

 

You guys should just try this stuff out. It has nothing to do with distortion levels, measurements, or any of that ********. Until you actually know how this stuff works on the theoretical and practical levels, by which I mean engineer your own DAC, cables, etc. from beginning to end, just listen to it. One thing I learned is it is never about knowing the equations. All models are wrong, and some models are useful. Any ******* can sit at home on wikipedia and memorize equations. Take home something like a BDA-1 and plug it into your normal system that you know by heart, and you'll hear the difference.

 

Also, here is an excellent article on feedback in amplifiers from a guy who makes better amplifiers than the one you have (probably). https://passlabs.com/articles/audio-distortion-and-feedback


Were I a moderator on sound science this load of bull crap would be nixed.  You tell me how the electron flow is having effects flowing in one direction, then wish to ignore that the very effect you are referring to on the very cables is an AC phenomenon which has electrical pressure in one direction then the other.  Meaning your supposition of the effect doesn't happen, much less the info Steve Eddy has supplied also abrogating such claims. 

 

Then the claim it has nothing to do with distortion levels, measurements or any of that stuff.  Yeah, right, sure , just go with the feel right?  Bull crap garbage.  If it doesn't alter the signal it doesn't sound different.  And altering the signal is the definition of distortion.  All of which we can measure far below human abilities to hear. 


Then the ridiculous article by Nelson pass on feedback.  Look what matters is the signal coming out of the output.  Do it with no feedback, low feedback or huge feedback and it doesn't matter if that result is clean enough it is inaudible.  Not to mention the hubris, totally unjustified supposition that Mr. Pass' products are better than what I or anyone else has.  Guess what? I have owned a couple of Mr. Pass' products including a no feedback design.  What I have is better, both in how it sounds to me, and in how it measures, not to mention how well it powers my power hungry speakers.  So much for your garbage suppositions.

 

Finally are we to take it that you have engineered your own DAC, cables, speakers, amps etc. or otherwise by your criteria all the bull crap you just spouted is something no one by your criteria should listen to.  Kind of crazy is exactly how I would characterize it.  Crazy! Man! Crazy!!

post #873 of 1186
Quote:
Originally Posted by lids369 View Post

Depends on which convention you use. Luckily, the whole AC signal isn't a problem because power supplies convert from AC to DC. It's really crazy!! 

I believe it is called a straw man when you arguments rely on a purposeful misrepresentation of the topic. Here, cable Burn-in which involves audio signal (I.e., AC waveforms.... AC is what the technically inclined call alternating current where the net charge Flux alternates the direction of travel) whereas you're now arguing about DC power supplies. Please make up your mind about what you're discussing. The discussion will be much more productive that way.

Cheers
post #874 of 1186

I recabled my stock DT880s with some tapped alumium foil.  Smoother treble, midrange is a tad forward, much better than stock!

post #875 of 1186
Quote:
Originally Posted by HulkHogan View Post

I recabled my stock DT880s with some tapped alumium foil.  Smoother treble, midrange is a tad forward, much better than stock!

Amen to that, brother!

Cheers
post #876 of 1186
Quote:
Originally Posted by HulkHogan View Post
 

I recabled my stock DT880s with some tapped alumium foil.  Smoother treble, midrange is a tad forward, much better than stock!


I think you mean "taped," not "tapped."  Also, you need to tell us that your mod made the bass "faster," and that the "entire soundstage" is "bigger" and "darker," with some reference to how the music "emerges" and also throw in some use of the term "organic." 

 

Don't worry, you'll get the hang of it!

 

:wink_face:

post #877 of 1186
Quote:
Originally Posted by esldude View Post
 


Were I a moderator on sound science this load of bull crap would be nixed. 

 

I'm not sure I agree with you.  While my initial impulse is to agree with you, it would do wonders for my blood pressure, I think it's better to debate and rebut these type of opinions, not just ignore them. 


Edited by BlindInOneEar - 6/4/14 at 10:28pm
post #878 of 1186
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlindInOneEar View Post


I think you mean "taped," not "tapped."  Also, you need to tell us that your mod made the bass "faster," and that the "entire soundstage" is "bigger" and "darker," with some reference to how the music "emerges" and also throw in some use of the term "organic." 

Don't worry, you'll get the hang of it!

wink_face.gif

Or that the bass comes out like the Undertaker while the treble comes flying at you like Rey Mysterio, Jr.

I imagine the mids are quite macho, oh yeah! wink.gif

Cheers
post #879 of 1186
Quote:
Originally Posted by lids369 View Post
 

 

Depends on which convention you use. Luckily, the whole AC signal isn't a problem because power supplies convert from AC to DC. It's really crazy!! 

 

You guys should just try this stuff out. It has nothing to do with distortion levels, measurements, or any of that ********. Until you actually know how this stuff works on the theoretical and practical levels, by which I mean engineer your own DAC, cables, etc. from beginning to end, just listen to it. One thing I learned is it is never about knowing the equations. All models are wrong, and some models are useful. Any ******* can sit at home on wikipedia and memorize equations. Take home something like a BDA-1 and plug it into your normal system that you know by heart, and you'll hear the difference.

 

Also, here is an excellent article on feedback in amplifiers from a guy who makes better amplifiers than the one you have (probably). https://passlabs.com/articles/audio-distortion-and-feedback

Hilarious post and article. Thanks for the laugh!

post #880 of 1186
Quote:
Originally Posted by lids369 View Post
Also, here is an excellent article on feedback in amplifiers from a guy who makes better amplifiers than the one you have (probably). https://passlabs.com/articles/audio-distortion-and-feedback

That isn't actually a bad article, except that it really doesn't talk at all about feedback. It plots a lot of different outputs without feedback showing that (to nobody's surprise) designs that are intended from the start to use feedback to achieve a clean output perform like crap when they have no feedback. He also waffles around a bit in claiming that feedback can cause stability issues (true, but avoiding these is part of the design process) and that it can introduce additional distortion components (also true, but who cares when all of the final distortion is 90+dB below the signal). Aside from those two largely irrelevant points, he doesn't even really address feedback at all. It's more just assumed as a premise of the article that an amp that achieves good numbers without feedback is somehow more desirable, or a more elegant solution. In reality, I'll take a well-designed class AB or B amp with lots of feedback over one of the Pass designs, since it'll be much more efficient, smaller and lighter for the same output power, and have substantially better real-world performance.

post #881 of 1186
Quote:
Originally Posted by cjl 
In reality, I'll take a well-designed class AB or B amp with lots of feedback over one of the Pass designs, since it'll be much more efficient, smaller and lighter for the same output power, and have substantially better real-world performance.

Comment redacted.
Edited by ab initio - 6/5/14 at 2:22pm
post #882 of 1186
Seeing nome of us design make and sell world-famous amps that are universally acknowledged to be nothing short of awesome, I'd say Nelson Pass knows a $hit ton more about amps than all of us combined. And i'd do quite a lot for one of his amps.

Having said that, i think like all things, if properly designed and implimented, no one topology is "better" than others. Feedback (done right) is mathematically advantageous but not using feedback isn't the end of the world either.
post #883 of 1186
Quote:
Originally Posted by cjl View Post
 

That isn't actually a bad article

 

In fact, it is, since the much higher distortion with the multi-tone signals (as shown on figures 8 and 13, for example) is mainly simply because they have a higher amplitude (are not normalized to the same peak level) than the single tone input. As the distortion is simulated with a simple cubic polynomial, it will of course have a higher level when the input level is higher, but this would happen also with a single tone normalized to the same peak to peak range.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by x838nwy View Post

Seeing nome of us design make and sell world-famous amps that are universally acknowledged to be nothing short of awesome, I'd say Nelson Pass knows a $hit ton more about amps than all of us combined.

 

That does not prevent the article from possibly being biased or even intentionally incorrect with the purpose of selling products, though.

post #884 of 1186
Quote:
Originally Posted by x838nwy View Post

Seeing nome of us design make and sell world-famous amps that are universally acknowledged to be nothing short of awesome, I'd say Nelson Pass knows a $hit ton more about amps than all of us combined. And i'd do quite a lot for one of his amps.

Having said that, i think like all things, if properly designed and implimented, no one topology is "better" than others. Feedback (done right) is mathematically advantageous but not using feedback isn't the end of the world either.

 

Eh, there's plenty of "universally acknowledged to be nothing short of awesome" gear out there that turn out to be duds. Considering that it took a few guys on an online forum to pick apart his "scientific" article, I'd say Nelson Pass probably doesn't know as much as you think he does.

post #885 of 1186
Quote:
Originally Posted by ab initio View Post

Who cares about performance when what really matters is how much money you spent?

I'd just like to point out that while the Pass Labs gear is expensive, Nelson has been a HUGE benefactor to the DIY community.

se
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